This is the second part of the interview I held with my husband Aditya’s parents (you can find Part One here). This part starts off with an interlude on Maa and Baba’s first meeting for their “semi-arranged” marriage, then continues on the topic of their first impressions of me. I finally got them to discuss some negatives: what they find difficult in having a non-Indian daughter-in-law and my (apparently) one fault. We also discussed some of the things they dislike about general American culture (as it relates to interpersonal relationships), and ended with some advice Maa and Baba have for intercultural couples, both generally and for those having some difficulty with Indian in-laws. Technical details: I transcribed the interview from a sound recording, and have only edited (in square brackets) for clarity or in keeping with Maa & Baba’s wishes for certain things to be “off the record”. My comments and notes post-transcription are in red.
Aditya: So what is that story that you were telling, of when Baba came to meet you?
Baba: That was our semi-arranged marriage!
Maa: Semi? Why “semi”? Absolutely arranged!
Baba: I saw her, and then I said okay. It was not arranged. So semi.
Maa: They put an advertisement in paper, that their son is not getting married for last ten years, they’re searching for daughter-in-law.
Baba: And my in-laws had a daughter who was not being married for ten years, said, “Okay, this is a right match!”
Maa: So, when they came, they didn’t tell me… Maybe my parents knew it, but I didn’t know that they were coming. So it was Sunday, and I had lot of hair… The whole week I had to go to college, so I didn’t wash my hair properly, because in India you can’t go with, uh, hair loose, you have to tie it up. Nowadays everything is gone, but that time it was there. So Sunday is my oil massaging day. So from top to bottom I used to apply oil.
Aditya: And Maa’s hair was down to her knees almost.
Maa: So, they came at three o’clock. And I took bath at twelve o’clock, I think. And I didn’t do shampoo also. And you can just imagine…
Baba: You know, that is why I got married to her, just because of her hair. Because I could not see anything else [to judge]!
<laughter>
Maa: And in India, when some girl is to, uh, be presented to her in-laws, they put on a lot of makeup, good saris, jewelry. But I was wearing a cotton sari, normal, because I didn’t know that they were coming. And my sister-in-laws, all, my parents, couldn’t [dress me up], because I am very strict about that. What I am, I am, there’s no makeup or something. And, I used to wear a bangle on my right hand. On my left hand, I used to wear a watch, a wrist-watch. I was at home, so I didn’t wear that also. And I met him like that!
GG: So, after you both met, did you discuss anything with each other?
Baba: Oh, yeah, we had a talk, between us. But I don’t think that it was, uh, like an examination. We just discussed what I feel, what did she feel that particular day? That’s all.
Maa: And then for food, at the restaurant, I didn’t take it. Because my mother told me, don’t go with anybody in the restaurant. So he was asking, “Are you hungry?” “No,” [I said].
Baba: So I sat down, I ate.
Maa: And he ate. When we came back to our home, from [movie] picture, I was telling my mother, “Give me some food, I am very hungry!” And he says, “Why didn’t you take?!” But how could I explain to him at that time?
Baba: That was my golden era.
I cannot imagine participating in the process of an arranged marriage – not that I think that they’re necessarily bad, but I just can’t picture what it would be like. Maa & Baba’s story of their first meeting was, therefore, quite enlightening as to some of the particulars. It all strikes me as something out of a Jane Austin novel.
GG: Okay, next question!
Baba: This is off the syllabus?
GG: Yes! So, did Aditya discuss marrying me with you?
Maa: Actually, I told him, you ought to get married. If you want to stay together, you ought to get married. That I told him.
Aditya: I mean, it was a variety of things. I think it started… I mean, obviously, after graduating, I moved to California, and I was looking for housing. We talked about it. And obviously I asked before I proposed to GG.
Maa: He didn’t ask, we discussed.
Aditya: Yeah, we discussed, it was more like that.
Maa: I said, if you want to be with her, then get married. You take the responsibility.
The idea of “responsibility” being a key part of a marriage is something I’m still noodling over. I’ll admit I’ve never thought of it in exactly those terms.
GG: Did your expectations of what you expect for a daughter-in-law change after Aditya said he was marrying me?
Aditya: What I think she is asking is, would you have different expectations if she was Indian?
Baba: No. And that should be in block capitals! Because I told you, my expectations for my daughter-in-law is the same whether it is Bhabi, Punjabi, or GG, American.
Bhabi is Aditya’s sister-in-law, i.e. Baba’s other daughter-in-law, for those just tuning in.
GG: So, what would you say was something I did that impressed you early on?
Maa: Everything.
Aditya: I think they spoke the highest of your card-playing ability.
GG: Card-playing?
Maa: Yeah, card-playing…
Baba: Not card-playing ability, the way you picked up the game. You know, pick-up is more important for playing the game. If your pick up is good, whether it is cards or studies, that is a quality, and of course, which I feel did impress on the first day.
Like Aditya, I come from a family where playing cards is a key part of family bonding. Aditya’s family’s game is Twenty-Nine, while my family plays a house version of Rummy and Oh Hell. Being decent at cards in both of our families – or at least enjoying playing cards – is a pretty important trait.
Maa: Even when we came back from the cabin, you cooked for us, a nice —
Baba: No, that was afterwards, but, my point is, the first day.
Maa: But, that time, they were not even engaged. So I liked it very much.
I made a spicy spagetti with chicken sausage (since Maa & Baba don’t eat beef or pork), a simple salad, and some out-of-the-box cake for the family at Aditya’s brother’s house while they were off on a day trip – really the meal was nothing special or complicated. I think Maa might have been secretly afraid that the rumors of Americans were true, and I couldn’t cook a thing.
Aditya: What about Bear?
GG: My dad’s dog.
Maa: Oh, very sweet, very nice.
Aditya: Baba was taking pictures all evening of Bear, there were more pictures of Bear than of GG.
Maa: I liked your mother, your grandmother… And I was very much impressed by you.
Maa met my materal grandmother while I was back in the Midwest, attending college. Granmama is a French-Candian immigrant, altho she’s lived in the US for most of her life.
GG: Anything I did that surprised you, or maybe somewhat negative? Something you thought was kind of odd?
Baba: Actually, should I tell you? Yes, I’m not so critical in little things. If otherwise it is acceptable, it is okay.
Maa: Yes, everybody has some problems.
Baba: If everybody is happy, I feel that it’s good enough. I don’t see things so critical.
GG: Okay, so, now, Aditya & I are married… What is the hardest part about having a non-Bengali, or non-Indian daughter-in-law?
Maa: From my side, the only difficulty is to express myself.
Baba: The language.
Maa: The language. The hardest thing. Nothing else.
Aditya: (sarcastically) GG has been working hard on her Hindi.
I think I have a mental block against learning languages. I’m still struggling to keep a schedule of regular studying – but hearing this was a big motivator.
Baba: I don’t… Whether you are GG, or someone else, it would have not have made much of difference if that person were the same as GG. Because I don’t, uh, everybody has some shortcoming, some strong points. So if I forget about the rest of the things, only see the small shortcomings here or there, mentally I will not be happy. And I do not want to be unhappy.
GG: But is there any difficulty you see, maybe in customs I don’t know, or…
Maa: Even I don’t know a lot of customs. So I don’t care for that.
GG: Or my family doesn’t have the same expectations that an Indian family would…
Maa: How would I know, how do we know what your family expectations? We don’t know…
Baba: One thing I know, GG, that I have got my own way of looking at things. I can lead my life in that lane/line/road – whatever you want to call it, but I cannot make others follow it. Therefore, yes, often things happen even between me and Maa, where we think differently, we argue, feel bad. Maa stops talking, I stop talking, but that is for only a few hours. Because we know that this has to be there, because [we are] two persons.
Similarly, if I am very critical to anybody, it is making an unhappy relation, and no one is happy by doing so. It is better if we can enjoy each other’s company, which is good, overlook the shortcomings, the things that we don’t like. If I know that GG does not like something, I would like to avoid those things as much as possible. I have not vacuumed your bedroom, because I have felt that you would not like disturbed whatever arrangement or, uh, disarrangement…
<general laughter>
…that you have got. It is something like that, I have avoided it. But had it been my world, anybody could have done it for me and I would be happy. It is something like that. I try to avoid, don’t see things, which I feel may cause a bit of uneasiness between two persons.
GG: Is there anything that has been a positive, an unexpected thing that you’ve learned or experienced from having an American daughter-in-law?
Baba: Should I say now, one-to-one? Ready? Sure? I had the impression that Americans are generally very clean …that they keep things in order. But here, I have found…
And the truth comes out! This was the only critical thing I could get Maa & Baba to admit.
GG: It’s as much your son as me!
Aditya: GG, don’t even go there. You know, Thalith used to be our roommate, first when the three of us lived together, and then Thalith, GG, Ivan, and Claudia [lived together]. Thalith always used to make fun of us because the house was dirty and he used to blame me. But after I graduated, and he lived just with her, then he realized that what he actually saw there was her mess minus my cleaning up. You know, I visited GG twice, surprised her by arriving there before she expected me to be there. And the first day that I got there GG was sitting on the bed. And to get on the bed you could only put one step on the ground from the door. So you had to make a hop on one foot towards the bed, and then from that foot – you didn’t have space to put down the second foot – you had to hop off of that foot straight onto the bed. So everything you see is, always remember, that is GG minus my cleaning. Don’t say that it’s equally my fault.
While it is true that my college apartment room was that messy (I was working on my senior thesis!), it is complete falsehood that Aditya is a net benefit in the cleaning department; during the same time period Aditya’s studio in California was nearly as messy. Really, we’re just messy (and busy) people.
Maa: What to say…
GG: It’s okay to say unflattering things. Whatever is on your mind.
Maa: Actually, I love you very much, all qualities, but the only thing, I can’t tolerate this much of untidiness. No, I think that, uh, you are since your childhood away from your mother, maybe that has affected you. Because only a mother can teach a daughter…
GG: My mother is also very messy.
Maa: Maybe, maybe because of that.
Maa: What you will do, please, you [GG] do the dusting and cleaning, let him do the vacuuming. Yes, do it together. That way you will enjoy it. Otherwise you’re doing it here, he’s doing it there. When Aditya told me that last time that Amy [the basement tenant] was here, that after Amy left, we’ll do the basement as the TV room or something like that. How is it possible that somebody is playing there, she’s playing here in her computer? This is not right. Whenever you’ll be at home, stay together. That is the first thing between husband and wife. You’ll see that in our house also, wherever Baba is I try to be, yes, because I don’t get to …
Baba: You see, when I want to avoid her, she’s always there! … Have you gone to church? Have you seen a dirty church?
GG: I don’t go to church.. I’ve only been a few times when I was little.
Baba: Okay, the ten times you’ve gone to church in your life, have you ever seen a dirty, stinking church?
GG: No…
Baba: Why? Cleanliness is next to godliness! And it is your house. You want that, you know, welcoming look. A house that is messy cannot be a happy house.
Point. Aditya and I really do need to stop living like we’re still in college.
GG: Okay, last two questions. Is there any advice that you would give to an American, or another Westerner who is dating an Indian, and is worried maybe that the parents won’t approve or anything like that?
Maa: Yes. There is something. Like [in] India, we are naturally very family-oriented. It is in our, uhh, in our heritage. But in Western country, people are so advanced, so educated, so independent, that sometimes, they feel, that…
Baba: They become islands.
Maa: Yes, they become islands. The space, their conception of personal space makes them very lonely, gradually. Everybody has some defects, some shortcomings – that is a girl also and a boy. Don’t look at the shortcomings. If you like somebody, if you love somebody, try to, both of, try to compromise on some points. If you can give only will you have something. Always if you – uh, not you, I mean general you – that giving away is much better than taking away.
Baba: No, actually, her question was actually if an Indian boy or a girl is dating an American boy or girl, what advice would be given to them. That is what she asked.
Maa: That is the advice! You have to give something to take something!
Baba: No, no, no… That you are talking about harmony in married life or in relationship. I would say that if they are dating an Indian boy, don’t just go by the boy. Unless he has decided to get out of the family altogether – cut off, I mean – not that [he is] in touch with them, they come and go… Otherwise, the boy should make it clear exactly how his parents or her parents would react to such a decision.
Like, you two are very nice. When you come to India, we [could have] decided no, you have to be like Indian girl, you have to put on a lot of oil, get up early in the morning, five o’clock, take a bath, go to temple, do puja, come back, then you go to the kitchen, cook food.
Maa: That type of family is still there in India.
Baba: A lot of them! The ones that – I have been reading your blog – most of the people they have got that type of problem when they go abroad, to their in-laws place. Therefore, it must be absolutely clear in mind [of the couple] what the expectations [are] at the other end. And if it is so, they should not go to India at all. Because a lot of disharmony would be created on such visits. And as far as we are concerned, as I told you, we are much more liberal, we know and we have got faith on our children, and things are different. I don’t think that one can, uh, judge parents just by seeing our family.
Maa: Even uh, Indian girls get lots of problems.
Baba: Indian girls get problems at their in-laws place because the culture, the practices are different.
GG: Would you suggest for a couple in that situation, that they just go along with the parents, or they say “no, we aren’t going to do that. She will not be getting up at five am”? Or some sort of compromise?
Baba: No, no, I would say if they’re going to live in US they should live like in US. They cannot live in US as [in] India. If you are going to live in India, live like India[ns]. You should not change your lifestyle because you are in a different country [for a short visit], you better live the style of the country [that] you live in.
GG: Anything else you want to share?
Maa: No, I told you that space is very…
Baba: Space should not make–
Maa: Make a man lonely.
Baba: No. That should not, I would say, divide a couple.
Aditya: I think it’s all about, when it comes to intercultural relationships, or really any relationship, it’s all about setting expectations. Like you should never get to the point where there is, like… In most Indian families parents are part of the married family. And you should never get to the point where those stakeholders are not on the same page.
Baba: That’s what I’m saying. And once – often courtship, like salesmanship – often the boy or the girl will tell little bit of half-truth. They will tell the facts just to impress, or hide things that maybe one [will] realize when you go to India. So that should be quite clear, how it is like at the other end. Like earlier, people used to get married, not to Americans, but a lot of people used to get married to the European girls, mainly British. And most of these people are sufficiently moneyed, but they were not like Rajas. But they used to give the impression that they were like small Rajas. And after the wedding they used to go, they used to find that things are not like what they heard during their courtship, and they had a lot of trouble during those days. The same way that I feel that one should be quite truthful, and put both sides on the right side of the picture, and then decide.
Maa: And husband and wife relationship should very, very based on honesty.
13. July 2009 at 8:33 am
Hey Gori,
I have been reading your blogs for time now. You are doing an excellent work and trying to help people out.
I liked your idea of interviewing your inlaws and posting it.
In general, I think when it comes to Indian parents, they think that in case if a marriage have some problems or starts going sour, It is better to handle and fight a known enemy (indian SIL or DIL) than an unknown enemy (non-Indian SIL or DIL.). From my perspective everything kind of boils down to this.
Keep up the good work.
Regards
13. July 2009 at 9:33 am
Hi GG
Baba: “”And as far as we are concerned, as I told you, we are much more LIBERAL, we know and we have got faith on our children, and things are different. I don’t think that one can, uh, judge parents just by seeing our family.”"
Thats exactly what i said yesterday.Even your respected in-laws used the term “liberal”.
Bengalis, especially educated ones are generally more tolerant and more “liberal” than their counterparts from other different regions of India. That i guess is a huge advantage for you guys.
Loved the interview and also loving your blog.
13. July 2009 at 9:49 am
Eh, you claimed that Bengalis in general were more liberal – not exactly the same thing as what Baba is saying – he's only referencing himself, there, not making claims about 80 million people in West Bengal.
Personally, I don't think I've read enough unbiased, properly conducted statistical analysis on West Bengal vs. the rest of India to make any reasonable claims about Bengalis overall “liberalness”. I'd be comfortable making that claim about, say, my home state of California vs. the rest of the US, but then I know of a lot of polls and gov't data to back me up.
Anyways, I'm glad you enjoyed the interview & have been enjoying the blog; I really appreciate hearing your comments.
13. July 2009 at 9:52 am
Hi alchemist – I'm glad you've been enjoying the blog!
I suspect that there are a whole host of reasons that go into why a family may disapprove of an intercultural marriage, but ignorance of the different culture – and comfort level with different cultural practices – almost certainly plays a role in the friction for every family.
13. July 2009 at 10:07 am
Oh, I loved reading this interview! GG, your in-laws are so cool, and it was such a great idea for you to interview them like this. They seem really cute together. Their attitudes remind me a lot of my own MIL's attitudes about our relationship too (and no, IP, she's not Bengali, she's of Marwari descent and is a devout Jain!
)
I think I know what your Maa means by “taking responsibility” in getting married, because it is a big responsibility! Plus, I think there is much more of a sense in India that when a man gets married he's taking on the responsibility of providing for a wife/family. Maybe you could ask a follow-up question about that?
My MIL probably thought I am not as tidy as her, but I was happy to let her help out while she was here. She understood that we are both working a lot and too busy to clean except on weekends. On the communication/language front, I have to admit that my Hindi studies are coming along slowly, but Mummy has been taking English classes in India (and took ESL classes here in the US when she was with us too). She's working so hard at it that it puts my Hindi studies to shame.
Your in-laws had some very wise tidbits of advice. I hope you can get them to share some more while they are here!
13. July 2009 at 10:21 am
Hi GG
i specially mentioned “educated” ones. So that leaves out quite a large number among those 80 millions.i mean the middle and upper class Bengalis.
You say:
“”I'd be comfortable making that claim about, say, my home state of California vs. the rest of the US”"
And i am a bengali so i guess i can make that claim abt bengal.
Also u see, things like “polls” and “govt data” are not really available about Indian states comparing “attitudes” and “cultural values” so u have to go by observations.
Anyways, i wanna ask u one question:
i have read a number of your articles here regarding Indian culture,society and family values and your comments here and there,i am often pleasantly surprised by your deep knowledge abt our culture and family traditions. From where did u get so much information and insight about Indian culture???????
Reading your blog i felt u know more about Indian family structure than even many Indians do.
13. July 2009 at 10:57 am
Usage of the word “liberal” kind of makes it sound political …..hmm … the state of west bengal has been ruled by communists for more than 3 decades..
. I guess rather than the word “liberal” it would be better to say “understanding”, in the Indian context 
. I think that is what baba meant. Nice post btw. 
13. July 2009 at 11:25 am
Very interesting post, GG!! So far whatever I have read on ur blog has been inspiring. Being a bengali myself, I don't quite need all this info, but I am glad someone who is not a bengali is so interested in all this. I especially enjoy your efforts to get along with and understand your in-laws. By Indian standards, your in-laws are “very liberal” (not liberal by political viewpoint), especially when your FIL says he has same expectations from all the girls in his family! Great post, really!
btw, if u wanna learn hindi quickly see an hour of hindi cable TV every week…in a few months you should be able to understand a good percent of what is being said. That's how I hear a lot of Indians learn American English…by watching American TV! Good luck!
13. July 2009 at 2:49 pm
I would like to be superficial here and just say that your in-laws are so good looking! Your ma is so beautiful, and Aditya's father is handsome! They also look like the nicest of people. You are very lucky to have married into this family.
I would love to see photos of your in-laws as a young married couple. They must be just beautiful.
13. July 2009 at 3:59 pm
You left out the rest of my sentence “but then I know of a lot of polls and gov't data to back me up.” While I realize that the data in developing countries is wretched (first day of graduate-level coursework in Development Economics is always “the data is patchy, and untrustworthy, anyways”), I still think it's incorrect to make such a sweeping (and absolute) claim based on personal observation alone, when your personal experiences are, extremely limited (and biased, of course) in comparison to the population size. And that's leaving aside the fact that humans are subject to so many cognitive biases that also screw up the “data” that is got from personal observations.
Yeah, I know I'm a bit out of the norm in my thinkings on this matter – it's a subject that got beat into my head from having studied economics, philosophy (especially phil. of the mind), and statistics. I'll stop now, but my objection still stands.
————–
As far as what I know about Indian culture & such…. well, thanks for the compliment. I've taken a couple of courses, read widely from various nonfiction books & academic articles (continue to do so, in fact, but I spend more time with the Indian blogosphere now), and ask a lot of dumb questions of my husband and his family. And then I let it sit in my head for awhile 'til a blog post bubbles it's way out. Really, I don't know nearly as much about India as my husband knows about the US – given that we live here & all. I think it's only fair to him and his family that I educate myself so that American culture doesn't overrun our lives or lifestyle.
13. July 2009 at 4:02 pm
They are really great together – they bicker a fair amount, just like Aditya and I do – except that normally I can only tell from the tone because most conversations between them happen in lightning fast Bengali.
Marriage IS a big responsibility, but… I don't know, something about the phrasing from Maa has set me to thinking about how different people (and cultures) view that responsibility. I probably will follow up with her at some point.
13. July 2009 at 4:04 pm
Thanks for the tip on the Hindi learning, TD. I'm more of a visual learner than a aural one, but I suppose it's worth a try.
13. July 2009 at 4:06 pm
I'll pass on the compliments, in case they don't read the comments section. They ARE super nice, and I'm rather lucky to have 'em.
Oh, and there are a few family photos floating around of Maa & Baba when they were younger, but I don't think we have any digital versions.
13. July 2009 at 4:42 pm
“Baba: …I have been reading your blog…”
Oh! Well, then, hi GG's Baba (and Maa?)!
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with all us of!
13. July 2009 at 7:12 pm
Ha!
Ask, and apparently you shall receive. I got an email from Dada (who Maa & Baba are currently staying with) with old scanned pictures. You can find 'em here at my flickr site.
13. July 2009 at 7:17 pm
Yup. I only blog under an assumed name because I don't particularly want this site coming up when future employers google my name – not because I'm trying to keep it hidden from the family in any way.
13. July 2009 at 9:20 pm
Hi guys. I really like your blog, and your very well done posts.
As an Indian in the USA; the only reason I would not want to marry a local is to not “lose”
my own traditions and culture. Minds meeting , and matching interests and hearts are more important, but certainly , coming from an old and rich tradition, one would want to preserve it by having a completely Indian family, no?
Thoughts?
14. July 2009 at 6:25 am
Hi LF, welcome to the blog…
I assume that the question is directed more towards me (since I'm the *Indian* half of the relationship).
I'm glad you brought up this question, because I do hear this argument a lot (though not here)…
I do believe that India has a very old and rich tradition, but I do not put any credence in preserving the tradition as is. The beauty of Indian culture and tradition has been in its ability to evolve over time and assimilate newer (and foreign) cultures within it…
From Alexander's generals, to the Mughals, to Annie Besant. India assimilated their foreign traditions, and made it their own…
The point at which we start trying to “preserve” our traditions, we'll become monoliths of a bygone era. The survival of traditions is in being able to remain relevant with changing times. Even following Hindu traditions & scriptures, you can see clear evidence of the evolution of Hinduism when it responds to new “challengers” like Buddhism (Bhagavad Gita), Islam (Vedanta revival) and Christianity (Vivekananda).
I do think that the argument (or preserving traditions) are well intentioned, but the fact of the matter is that traditions must be revisited constantly to remain relevant. If we froze our traditions as they were in the 16th century, we'd still have women locked in the kitchen.
Unfortunately, this argument is also being made all over the world today to deny basic human rights to minorities and oppressed groups… from the denial of political rights to women, to outlawing gay marriage, the mantra of “this is not how it has always been” has become the central “argument” against progress of society.
In the reality of the globalized world of today, intercultural relationships give us a glimpse of a future where the free flow of information and people have broken down meaningless antiquated boundaries.
14. July 2009 at 9:50 am
I've been reading for a while, too, but don't remember if I've commented before. Thanks for this post, GG. Your in-laws are wonderful! Not only are they both quite beautiful to look at, they are clearly lovely people. I wish my (Punjabi) in-laws, especially my MIL, were still alive to have a similar discussion with. They were also incredibly accepting of me, their American bahu, and always told me that they thought of me as a daughter as much as their own daughters.
14. July 2009 at 12:40 pm
Excellent blogs! Such good advice, knowledge, Wisdom, from your parents-in-law, GG! You have married into a good family. Your heart and possibly, your critical-thinking skills?, have led you wisely.
These blogs are very good in that there is such good advice for every couple, not just intercultural ones. If more american couples followed such advice, and place more importance for family (extended also), I think there would be much less breaking up of couples, than happens here in the U.S.
(Note: although it appears that your mom is (WAS) messy, she is only a collector of information and never has enough time to “archive” everything.
She wishes to make this point clear as she is clean in the fact of cleaning dirt, messes, up. And you & your brother did not learn to clean up because you would not listen to me and I did not believe in spanking you. And you both DID pick up your toys every night.) 
14. July 2009 at 3:45 pm
Good points Aditya.
I agree with the challenges of newer cultures bringing in improvements in thinking, by the actions of a creed of people. More examples would be India learning how to govern itself democratically by having the British teach us.
And, yes, as the whole world is mixing, and city life in Tokyo today is not very different from city life say in Toronto.
However, all said and done; Bangla/. Marathi/ Punjabi (in my case)/ and so many other different subcultures cultures are strong and retain their aesthetics, solely because of a continuity that is maintained in the ways of the people of that culture. No culture is superior to any other. However, all said and done, the older cultures are richer in “consciousness” if you may; because of the number of generations of people who have evolved it, by living within it. For example, it would have taken 1 million generations from homo erectus to evolve to homo sapiens. Extrapolating from this ; the older the culture, in some ways, the more intricate it is.
It is the loss of these intricacies via inter cultural marriage that i refer to in my first question. These may or may not be valuable in their own respect, but they are there, and they do make Asian heritages very rich.
14. July 2009 at 8:36 pm
loved it.
14. July 2009 at 9:44 pm
Uh, you can't extrapolate from evolution (a biological science) to culture (a, um, sociological phenomenon?). Extrapolation doesn't work that way. Also, your extrapolation, even if it were logically valid, is incorrect: homo erectus wasn't more “intricate” than homo sapien – just a different species. Now if you want to compare, say, single-celled microbes and humans, I'll grant you that one is more intricate than the other. But then in your analogy you'd be comparing microbe culture to human culture, which seems a rather pointless exercise.
Also, I'm confused by what the meaning of “older culture” is – all human cultures flow from older ones, after all. There is no oldest culture, since all human cultures are equally ancient since all have evolved from a single common culture.
Some particular traditions or practices may be older than others (breaking up by facebook: new human practice), but I think it's rather silly to value tradition just for tradition's sake. Tradition doesn't mean anything more than that this behavior has been practiced for a long time – that might be because it's a valuable practice for humans in general (like, say, meditation), or it might just be because people are superstitious about things they don't understand, or certain people are able to control others through this tradition (witchcraft, slavery, caste system, etc). Every human practice or tradition should be evaluated on its own merits, not on its history.
I also don't understand what you mean by cultures being richer or poorer in “consciousness”. Do you mean that the culture itself is conscious? Or that people from that culture are more self-aware? I don't think that long-standing tradition makes a culture more self-aware – or would you say that all of those fine cultures that had long-standing traditions of, for example, slavery, featured more aware & conscious individuals (the ones who weren't slaves of course, since slaves aren't human, dontchaknow)?
Also, if intricacies may or may not be valuable in their own respect, why do you describe them as making a culture more “rich”? What does that mean? It seems very odd to describe a culture as better (and that is a pretty obvious connotation of the word “rich”) just because it's more intricate. I mean, would a culture that includes rules, social customs, and strictures on every possible thing under the sun somehow be richer than a culture that is less “intricate” but allows people from that culture to lead happier, more free, more fulfilling lives? I know which one I'd rather live in. (In case you can't tell, I do think some cultures are better than others. For instance, ones that don't have slavery are better than ones that do.)
15. July 2009 at 7:18 am
Oh, well, it's not so much that I thought you were trying to keep it hidden… (presumably they knew they were being interviewed for something!)… just… I still hadn't pictured them sitting and reading what we wrote, for some reason.
You should encourage them to comment! (Or, @GG's Baba & Maa: we'd love to hear your thoughts in comments, too!)
15. July 2009 at 10:58 am
GG, I have totally enjoyed reading part 1 and 2 of this dialogue with your in-laws. It's interesting to see it from their perspective. I know I haven't had a heart-to-heart like this with my in-laws although I know they were not interested in having a “white” daughter in law. I think now they don't mind and they are very affectionate but I do know there are things they miss (the fact I don't speak their native tounge). Anyways, enjoy your visit and thanks for sharing this with us!
15. July 2009 at 12:32 pm
Thanks for that answer, GG, you bring up excellent points of view.
You are absolutely right about cultures not being better than other's especially when the average person of that culture lead far more fulfilling lives than the other culture.
In the cycles of evolution, the species that have had the greater number of evolutionary cycles by “survival of the fittest” rules, have gone on to better evolutionary successes. This rule holds true across the board. Be it mammals or reptiles or marsupials. Complexity and higher cognitive processes are also responsible for a species leveraging materials hitherto not accessible to them, thereby gaining competitive advantages over other species. Eg. human minds vs chimpanzee minds.
Tradition works (example: the Varanasi weaver families; A R Rahman's family; the table/ shehnai/santoor families). So does hybridization and mixing (eg. America; India).
Tradition works in the sense that the consciousness at a particular thing is refined constantly (consciousness= that which distinguishes Sachin Tendulkar at batting from a gully cricket player; the refinement of senses if you will; the difference between Jim Corbett in the jungle vs a tourist; the difference between Paul Erdos at number theory vs a 12 class IIT JEE aspirant)
It is easy for a carpenter's son to become a carpenter because he has grown up with such activity all around him. This continuity in consciousness is the basis for the much maligned caste system; it did not exist in India only though;
surnames like “Mason”; “miller” , “scherrer” (barber) are European and show that the family name and or the profession were linked. Their rigidity is what distinguished the Indian profession based caste vs the European
“caste system” in surnames.
This consciousness/intricacies/sense is what is being spoken about in my original question; which may be rephrased thus;
“That do you, as an intercultural family; feel a mixed Indian and American culture taking root in your household? Is “cultural continuity” an issue or not? Are languages and your children learning certain languages important or not so important? “
15. July 2009 at 2:27 pm
Gah. I started to respond to this, and ended up almost writing a book! So, since I obviously have a lot to say on this issue, I think it'd be better for me to write a blog post on the topic. Look for it in a day or two – I certainly haven't forgotten your comment!
15. July 2009 at 2:42 pm
Thank you so much GG; the response time that you and Aditya have to posts is really good, and shows how well you guys maintain this website.
All the best!
Cheers,
16. July 2009 at 5:18 pm
Hey – finally got the post up, which you can find here: http://gorigirl.com/broken-traditions-intercult...
20. October 2009 at 4:50 pm
hi, i have been reading your posts and have found so much insight and has helped me alot to understand my mixed heritage, my mum is english and my dad was half scottish and half asian his father my grumpy came from pakistan. unfortunatly my grandparents and my dad died when i was young so have not had anyone to guide me on my spiritual jurney in finding my roots, before i went into foster care i do remember asking my mum once her anserw was to buy and stick a real full sized tipee up in the garden! bless her for trying… i put it down to the fact she is blonde and was having a blonde day. it was still fun tearing round playing cowboys and indians with my friends though.
20. October 2009 at 5:21 pm
rheya, I’m glad this blog has been helpful for you!
22. October 2009 at 2:24 pm
I reread this interview today, and I realized, that yes, that is the only thing that I feel that I miss when I make relationships with the average American in my college. I have posted here earlier, and I brought up the cultural difference, the lack of family/people orientation and the strong work orientation, that I see here in America. This is a small post about how I get along with people who are culturally from the US.
Again, disclaimer, sorry for all the generalizations, they are but intellectual:
1. People from Texas—yes, hospitable, but brutally direct. Get along with them easily. Not very likable sometimes. Very macho sometimes. Little concept of “face”.
2. People from the northeast—wayy better in terms of relationships than Texans. Friendlier in some ways.
3. People from the midwest—I dont know why, but I get along best with people who are culturally from this region of the US. More down to earth, a little more conservative etc etc. Likable.
One of the things I just dont get, is that a lot of people just forget about you when you move …the impermanence of relationships is fascinating to see, especially contrasted with the whole every person has a place in society feeling that India gives me.
26. October 2009 at 10:27 am
I recently read an article on how facebook is changing – diluting? – the meaning of “friend” in the US (and the rest of the world…), since many of the people you connect with on facebook are not what people have typically termed “friend”.
It is true that Americans are far more mobile than the rest of the world – it’s actually a great strength of our economy, as it means that people are willing to move to where there’s work (smoothing out recessionary cycles), even if it means leaving family and friends behind. In some ways, I see this mobility & independence as primary features/facts of American culture – after all, a willingness to pick up all your roots and leave your homeland was what determined this country’s initial settlers, and every wave of immigrants since. This sort of ethos fits well with my personality, but I can understand how it’s not for everyone.
2. January 2010 at 12:51 am
“after all, a willingness to pick up all your roots and leave your homeland was what determined this country’s initial settlers”
If you’re talking about the Puritans, weren’t they escaping religious persecution? In which case, willingness wasn’t much of a factor.
2. January 2010 at 12:58 am
The Puritans were a very small subset of the settlers in the colonies, despite all the page time they get.
29. January 2010 at 5:40 pm
Shout out to all the gorigirls with desi guys,
A special tip for you only!
As you are in a relationship with Indians, I would suggest adopting this facet of Indian relationships, in order to deal with Indians better.
Indians are usually curious folk, and they like getting to know each other well. Thus you should show;
genuine concern, asking about each other, caring and the warmth .
Short point: “Ask Questions about the other person, and show curiosity, because Indians do so as a matter of routine”
I have a lot of American friends, and almost all of them are amazing at talking about what they are upto….and leave it to me to continue the conversation we are having , by asking them questions and giving my comments. They hardly ask me stuff, but enthusiastically validate what I say.
Much love,
LF
26. October 2009 at 10:05 am
I really enjoyed these. Thanks. They really seem to have taken you into their family and have accepted you fully which is wonderful to read. And Maa is right about relationships and honesty!
29. January 2010 at 12:57 pm
hey there gorigal
do u have a email address, could you please give me it
i have sum questions to ask u if u dnt mind?
i am a Indian gal born an brought up abroad and my husband to be is from kolkata
so i would like to ask u sum ?
hope to hear from u
29. January 2010 at 1:37 pm
Mischka, you can get my contact information from the Contact page.
7. April 2010 at 11:03 am
Hey GG,
Just wanted to say…awesome blog…and also it’s very nice to get a perspective from Parents:)
Mvh,
Indro