The Varnas that you refer to was a social order that has held true in most capitalist markets or civilised empires such as the Roman and Mughal ones. The holy men have been conisdered to have links with the beyond, the ruling class and soldiers are the wealthiest, then come most of society, and right at the bottom rung are servants and toilet cleaners.

I saw a documentary recently about poor brahmins cleaning toliets wo this does happen. The caste system is not racist, it’s feudal.

Please also look into the Aryan Invasian Theory, as I believe this has been disproven.

“the English drink too much”
This is certainly accurate…hehehh.
-

No doubt makes dealing with the monkey gods a bit more enjoyable. Snake gods might lead to hallucinations though

R is obviously from such a klan. They often go around Blogs posting their Anti Hindu rant. Especially if they hear or see anything that makes Hindus look good.

The whole world got to see how the christian untouchables got treated during Katrina!

How does that compare to the “evil caste of the Hindooooos”?

How does that compare to the “evil caste of the Hindooooos”?

See this link to know about treatment of women according to religious texts: http://stephenknapp.wordpress.com/

http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=162&Itemid=2

http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/indology_en.asp

RESPONSE TO WELCOME

At the World’s Parliament of Religions, Chicago
11th September, 1893

Sisters and Brothers of America,

It fills my heart with joy unspeakable to rise in response to the warm and cordial welcome which you have given us. I thank you in the name of the most ancient order of monks in the world; I thank you in the name of the mother of religions; and I thank you in the name of millions and millions of Hindu people of all classes and sects.

My thanks, also, to some of the speakers on this platform who, referring to the delegates from the Orient, have told you that these men from far-off nations may well claim the honour of bearing to different lands the idea of toleration. I am proud to belong to a religion which has taught the world both tolerance and universal acceptance. We believe not only in universal toleration, but we accept all religions as true. I am proud to belong to a nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered in our bosom the purest remnant of the Israelites, who came to Southern India and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny. I am proud to belong to the religion which has sheltered and is still fostering the remnant of the grand Zoroastrian nation. I will quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I remember to have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day repeated by millions of human beings: “As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

The present convention, which is one of the most august assemblies ever held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the world of the wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita: “Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to me.” Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant, fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilisation and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not been for these horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced than it is now. But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell that tolled this morning in honour of this convention may be the death-knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the sword or with the pen, and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal.

“No. The binary logic which goes behind that conclusion doesn’t address the real issue: it’s not ‘either it applies to every Hindu or it’s a stereotype.’”

That’s not the logic I’m employing. If you’d like to know more what I mean by stereotype, I have a handy-dandy post right here on the topic.

Regarding your other points, I don’t think we disagree much, if any. As I said previously, R’s problem was not that he was discussing systematic ways Hinduism does or does not support racism, classism, caste-ism, or what have you – it is that he chose to discuss the issue in terms of complete absolutes: “All Hindus….”, “Hindus do…”, etc, etc. Whether you have intended to promote stereotypes or not, I have seen some of the same sort of absolute statements in some of your writings (not on this thread), and stereotypes are not acceptable here. As I’ve said from the start in my About page:

“A Note About Cultural Stereotypes

I hate ‘em. This blog was partially created because of a site where a few negative anecdotes of interactions with Indians were being used to stereotype the entire country. India is a large place, with a number of different religions, ethnicities, and languages.”

No. The binary logic which goes behind that conclusion doesn’t address the real issue: it’s not “either it applies to every Hindu or it’s a stereotype.”

The question is not “Are all Hindus racist or cruel? (something I never said)” but “Does the traditional caste system systematically mobilizes people to act in cruel ways?”

The caste system was constructed by Indo-Aryan priests to abuse the lower castes. This is how northern India has been since the Mauryan Empire, and the south since the rise of the Cholas.

Whether you like it or not, the traditional caste-based Hindu culture does motivate “people of the higher three castes” to ominously suppress Shudras and Dalits who make up more than 50% of the population. (Keyword “traditional” — not liberal)

It is much more complex than mere “stereotyping.” Traditional Hindus from India are culturally and religiously predisposed to act in less civilized ways towards people of lower castes. Again, this is religiously motivated — very different from discrimination in other parts of the world (a straw man you just made up).

If you exclude Mumbai, Chennai, Pune, Calcutta, New Delhi, and other urbanized and westernized cities (still less than 5% of the entire population), you will find caste discrimination virtually every where else. Just because you have had positive experiences with highly educated, liberal Indians (except me I guess), doesn’t mean it is the same for the entire native population.

And this is only for the theistic — allegedly God given — caste system.

Hinduism has atheistic beliefs (Amartya Sen), and pantheistic beliefs too, which are very enlightening positions. Sadly, these aren’t prevalent in India.

R’s messages were spot on. I don’t think he used any slur words or even the word “idiot.” The only people offended were politically correct people who actually haven’t even lived in urban India, let alone the majority rural areas, where this caste conflagration mainly happens.

No one doubts that there is racism in India – just like there has been racism (or some form of physical appearance-based prejudice) in basically every culture that has been exposed to different types of peoples throughout history. It’s not exactly a revolutionary thought. Also, it’s not surprising that you can find people who lack compassion or “humanity” in traditional Hindu circles – there are jerks in every society and social strata. Again, R’s problem – similar to yours – was that because he believed that something was a trend in certain circles or that people often acted in a certain way, it must be true that all people – millions of people he has no knowledge of – must act that way.

It’s not a platitude to point out that one individual cannot make definitive claims about the beliefs of millions of others.

R’s painfully true statements about the Hindu Caste system–which is just the manifestation of the racism in India since antiquity–and the witty account of the lack of compassion or humanity in traditional Hindu circles would naturally attract knee-jerk, politically correct responses. Of course, none of them who disagreed with him made attempts to put firm arguments. It was all platitudes, which, I suspect, were fostered by incessant exposure to Bollywood movies.