Boy, I love me some good, high fiber intercultural friendship! Aditya informs me it’s particularly tasty with warmed whole milk. His insistence that cold cereal is best eaten with whole milk that is not in its natural state of refrigerated coldness (oh, the horrors***) is one of many indicators that we might just be in an intercultural relationship. (I suppose his Indian passport, brown skin, and Hindu faith also belong on the list of indicators, although, frankly, I notice the milk-warming thing just as often.)
Seriously, though – where is the line between just doing things a little differently, and being from two different cultures?
Here on Gori Girl, we’re pretty open about the definition of an intercultural relationship (henceforth ICR). Since culture is a broad, nebulous thing, finding someone of a different culture to be in a relationship with isn’t that hard to do. “Relationship”, by the way, is also a broad, nebulous concept, but we’re not going to get into that. If you think you’re in a relationship, be it hetro, homo, platonic, “it’s complicated” on facebook, or whatever else, then you are, as far as I’m concerned. One concept at a time, and today’s focus is on the intercultural part of ICR.
The best succinct definition of ICRs I’ve found comes from the first essay in the book Adjustment in Intercultural Marriage (see the ICR resource page). In speaking about intercultural marriages – it works equally well for ICR – Dr. Maretzki states that:
By intercultural marriage, we mean the marriage which takes place between spouses of different cultural backgrounds. They may be different in their values, beliefs, customs, traditions or style of life so that cultural dimension are a relatively significant aspect of such marriages. (emphasis mine)
This is the definition I’ll have in mind whenever I refer to an ICR. It’s a bit complicated, though, so I offer the following as a good rule of thumb:
if you and your high fiber good friend are of different ethnicities/races, religions, or nationalities, you’re probably (but not necessarily) in an intercultural relationship.
Working off of the more formal definition, most people can understand why you’d count as an ICR if you and your partner differ in one or more of the above three traits. But why the “not necessarily”? Well, sometimes, a difference in one (or more) of the “Big Three” simply doesn’t affect the relationship much.
For example, my parents were raised in two different faiths by two very religious families: Dad grew up in a Protestant denomination, and Mom was Catholic. Although they’re both Christian faiths, many a bloody war has been started because of the differences between the two. If my parents had stayed very religious, I have no doubt that these differences would have been a significant aspect of their relationship – and thus they would have been in an ICR. However, their religious upbringings didn’t really “take” with either one of them, and by the time Mom met Dad in college they were both rather irreligious, if still nominally Catholic and Protestant. Although they were raised in different religious cultures, these cultural differences didn’t affect their relationship in any measurable way.
Most resources that discuss ICRs typically define them using nationality, ethnicity/race, religion, or a combination of the three. Since Aditya and I don’t share any of the “Big Three” traits (well, I’ve kinda converted to Hinduism – more on that in a future post), I’ll be discussing all of these issues in the future. However, if you and your partner are similar in the Big Three, but are nonetheless struggling with cultural issues, well, you count as an ICR too. Welcome to the group!
For those of you who only have milk-heating disagreements – my deepest sympathies are with you (you being those who righteously champion cold milk), but I’m afraid that milk preferences aren’t quite significant enough for the relationship as a whole to put you in the ICR category.
***Using microwaved whole milk on his cold cereal – #2 in a continuing series of Ways Aditya Ruins Good Food. #1 is in the About Page, if you’re wondering. Personally, I’m in the camp of ice cold skim milk, but I’ll condone 1%, or even 2%, as long as it’s kept cold. Putting your milk in the microwave to be warmed just crosses the line, though at least Aditya doesn’t like it super warm. True fact: when Kellogg’s came to India, they had to change the formula for their corn flakes so that they stayed crispy in the quite warm (we’re talking above room-temperature here!!) milk most Indians preferred to use.
24. March 2008 at 9:39 am
For the record – even after “microwaving” the milk is cooler than room temperature… I prefer to reserve my chewing for the flakes – instead of wasting it on semi-frozen milk.
24. March 2008 at 8:51 pm
I like my GrapeNuts warm. Sometimes I eat my Frosted Mini Wheats warm, too. Really anything tough I think is better warm. But I do think I would draw the lines at, say, Chex or Frosted Flakes with warm milk.
As for ICRs, I don’t think we’re TOO much like that, but my husband and I have some definite cultural differences; I grew up very liberal Christian in Los Angeles, he grew up Mormon in Dallas, and some of the issues you describe, we have now and then– how we were raised definitely affects our relationships, and I think among Americans, unless you were raised in the same or very similar communities, there’s a good chance you’ll have some cultural issues when you try to have a relationship! (For instance, “barbeque” to me means tri-tip or skinless chicken on the grill, marinated but with no sauce, not smoked brisket or ribs smothered in sauce made with liquid smoke– and for that matter, liquid smoke does not belong in baked beans, or really anything else… Not a BIG issue, not even as big as some of the ones we run into now and again, but very illustrative.)
26. March 2008 at 4:21 pm
Interesting post. As someone who’s also in an intercultural relationship, I can definitely relate to this. While it might be milk for you and your partner, my relationship’s distinct difference centers around my cultural habit of eating rice (I’m Asian/Pacific Islander) and my usually Asian-centric dietary choices.
However, the racial aspect of this subject becomes a little blurry particularly in Hawaii where I live, where the social framework is basically a hodge-podge of eastern and western cultures.
27. March 2008 at 11:08 am
Yesterday Aditya overheated his milk in the microwave. I would have laughed at him, but I was afraid he’d do something in retaliation, like pour his milk on my head. We’re not exactly morning people around here.
Anne, it’s certainly true that if two people grew up in different subcultures in the US, such as you and your husband, there will be some cultural confusion from time to time. However, I’m not sure if I’d generally call people from different subcultures “intercultural” – there’s still the dominant American culture that they both get exposed to, so there tends to be more similarities than differences in their cultural upbringing. Of course, this isn’t always true – I imagine a relationship between, say, someone from the Amish population, and a New York City socialite would be about as intercultural as you can get.
Hi Dale – thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment! I have family in Hawaii, and have heard quite a bit about how racially mixed the islands are. While milk isn’t *really* an issue between Aditya and me – just something we tease each other about, I can see how rice could be. For a lot of my Asian friends rice is a staple to be eaten at pretty much every meal, but that’s certainly not the case in American culture overall. If you don’t mind sharing, what’s your partner’s race/ethnicity?
27. March 2008 at 1:01 pm
Hi Gori Girl – Thanks for the warm welcome and leaving a comment on my partner’s blog. She’s Caucasian — a mix of Dutch and German if my memory serves me right. I’m a mix of Filipino and a little bit of Thai and Irish.
27. March 2008 at 5:14 pm
Hi! Great post! I’m a midwestern 35-year-old white woman from the midwest and “he” is a 50-year-old old black Jamaican man residing in Canada. ‘Nuff said (meaning: I love this blog already!)
28. March 2008 at 3:55 am
Actually, the more “intercultural” part of our relationship is the religions we were raised in– Mormon subculture is Very Different in many ways from mainstream American culture, where I was raised. While I converted before I met him, I still often feel like I have not “fully assimilated” into Mormon subculture, it can be very wondrous and strange at times. When this mostly comes up is expectations and plans for our children, and child-rearing decisions. We often come from very different perspectives in that area. Also things that are not doctrine of the Church but “everyone knows”– well, as a convert in my adult years, I don’t know them. And often they lead to disputes. (He tried to insist that I should always take the Sacrament with my right hand. I refused to just on principle, and refuse to teach my children that that’s the only right way to do it. Stuff like that…)
30. March 2008 at 2:54 pm
Thanks for sharing, Dale – hope to hear more from you in the future.
Rachel, thanks for stopping by & leaving a comment. I’m glad you like what I’m doing here – if you have any questions, or content you’d like to see on the blog, feel free to shoot me an email.
Anne, you’re right that the religious aspect of your marriage certainly makes you pretty intercultural. That hadn’t quite clicked for me!
31. March 2008 at 9:20 pm
Hmmm.
So… if I am a white American who grew up entirely stateside, and my husband was born and raised in southern India with a different native tongue, religion, diet, and everything else… but, the differences that come up for us are most often of the warmed-milk variety (as adults, both secularly-oriented academic types)… does that mean we’re not in an ICR after all?
I do wonder sometimes how much might come up later that we just haven’t noticed yet – for example, when we have kids. For now, though, nothing’s been as big an issue as anything that came up with previous S.O.’s with whom I had fundamental disagreements on, say, how to save and spend money, or the value of living in the city versus the country.
31. March 2008 at 11:24 pm
@ sf: thanks for stopping by and commenting! If the only differences you and your husband have are milk-heating-related, then I think I should nominate you for Best Couple Ever, and forget about quibbling over whether you’re an ICR or not! *grin*
Seriously, though, milk-warming type differences are the most common type of things that come up for Aditya and I as well. But I think this is partly because he’s really adapted well to living in the US – it wasn’t until I visited India that I realized just how many changes he’s had to get used to.
1. April 2008 at 8:36 am
Yeah, that makes sense. I obviously think about it at least some, I suppose, or I wouldn’t be here scouting around on your blog…! Which I’m enjoying, btw, and looking forward to reading more of.
In fact, if you’re open to more topic requests, here are two for you: (1) How are you dealing with language issues? Are you trying to learn any indian language(s)? Do you have any thoughts on whether your kids (if you plan to have any) will be raised bilingual, and if so, how? (2) I got the impression – although I might be wrong – that your husband’s parents live in India. Any thoughts on how things will work as they get older? Are there any things you’re doing now to plan for times when they might have increasing health problems and it will be hard to be so far from them?
Anyways, keep up the writing! And congrats on the wedding – the photo you posted is gorgeous!
1. April 2008 at 1:50 pm
My guy lived in India until he was 9, then his family moved here. Sometimes I really notice how different we are, other times it’s amazing how much we are the same.
I think he seems “more Indian” to me now than he did for the years we were just friends. Maybe I just have exposure to more different parts of his life than I used to. He pretty much knows how to live both ways, and chooses a mix of the two.
1. April 2008 at 9:22 pm
@ sf: those are both good topic suggestions – and quite broad too! I’ll get up part of my response to #1 tonight, and will continue on as time permits. (We’re in the middle of a move.) The very short answers are: (1) comfortably, slowly, yes, with both of us speaking to them with both/all the languages, and (2) right impression, vague ideas at this point, yes.
I have a quick question for you too – in your original comment you said you were both “…academic types” – does this mean you’re in academia, or just like acadmic topics? Both are totally cool, but I was just wondering because I’m currently in a Ph.D program.
@ galaxie: I had a lot of friends in high school who had come to the US as children – they always seemed so Americanized, except for those few times when they didn’t, if that makes any sense. And those few times normally happened when I saw them outside of big social settings – like at home with their parents, or when there were just a few people around. Maybe there’s something similar going on with you and your guy?
1. April 2008 at 9:47 pm
Yeah, basically. Most of our mutual friends are non-Indian, so he didn’t do or mention a lot of Indian-specific stuff around me until we spent more time by ourselves.
3. December 2008 at 10:40 am
I just found your blog and I love this post (even though it is a bit of an older one). I’m an American woman married to a Chinese man. We live in China, in fact, my husband has never even been to the States, so as you can imagine, cultural differences abound, although often of the “warm milk” variety.
sf’s comment was quite perceptive, however. My husband and I have a one year old son, and I definitely think that cultural issues tend to grow when kids come into the picture. Western and Asian cultures have some vastly different ideas of how children should be raised, not to mention different attitude towards pregnancy and childbith. It makes things interesting to say the least!
I’d love to add this site to my blogroll, if that’s ok.
3. December 2008 at 1:53 pm
Hi Jessica & welcome to the site! Your blog is actually in my google reader already, although I haven’t been commenting on your posts, I don’t think.
Feel free to add gorigirl to your blog list, and I’ll return the favor in a little bit. Right now, as you’ll probably notice, the blog’s been on a bit of a hiatus. I’ve been working full time plus pulling 2/3rds of a full load of graduate courses to finish up my master’s, so life has been a little to hectic to be blogging. Finals are next week, however, and I’m hoping to get back into the blogging routine after that.
I really admire you for raising a kid in a different country and culture, away from many of your support systems! My office mate is Chinese, and has a child with his long-term girlfriend, who is white, so I hear quite a bit from him about the differences in typical Chinese and American attitudes towards child-rearing. The biggest differences seem to be in those little “common sense” things – I remember noticing that when I was working as an Au Pair in Germany too. They always wanted kids bundled up to sweating when it was just slightly chilly outside!
Aditya and I aren’t quite at the raising kids stage, but both his older siblings and mine are starting to procreate – it’s very interesting to see how our different families are handling the babies and toddlers.
4. December 2008 at 10:17 am
I imagine with a schedule like that you’ve got to be busy, thanks for taking the time to reply!
I think for me, it was easier getting married and having a baby in China than it could have been, due to the fact that I’d already lived here for quite few years before I met my husband, and was somewhat used to China and Chinese ways. If I had just come into this as someone who fell in love with someone who just happened to be from another culture, rather than falling in love with the culture first, and then falling in love with a person from that culture, I think adjusting would have been much more difficult. As it is, yes, the things like how much clothing our son wears, what to do when he gets a cold, and recently whether or not to keep the windows open (in -10C weather, I might add. Ahem), cause small tensions that I couldn’t have anticipated. We try to laugh over our differences mostly and not take each other too seriously. I was blessed with a husband who is very open and who is not easily ruffled by cultural issues. We both bend a lot.
Anyhow, I look forward to reading more when you are less busy. And do add my blog to your list, I think that a lot of you who have Indian spouses/boyfriends have a lot in common with me, despite the fact that the two cultures are quite different, China and India do share some commonalities in the fact that they are both very large, mostly conservative, traditional societies that are rapidly developing. So I definitely enjoy reading the different, yet similar, take on things.
4. December 2008 at 5:26 pm
This blog is neat.
13. January 2010 at 4:10 pm
It is taking me a long time to read your blog: blame it on my slow computer and the clutter of the page (for blind computer users), but I had to laugh at the warm whole milk thing. Fiancee is from Pakistan/Muslim and …. …. well, enough said! The differences make for interesting moments!
21. January 2010 at 5:01 pm
Jamily, if you know of a way/web design guide that would allow me to make this blog more friendly to blind computer users, I’d be very interested in decreasing the clutter you go through.
If you could even clarify how you read through the page, that could be helpful… This is a website running wordpress, if that helps.