Comments on: Wearing Sindoor as a White Woman http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor intercultural relationship stories and advice Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:09:10 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Akshay http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3600 Akshay Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:08:45 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3600 I managed to convince my (Chinese) gf to wear bindi (the stick-on variety) and salwar and accompany me to the temple tomorrow for Sankranti celebrations. You know, just so we do it like the desi couples do back in the desh, who hang out in temples and such... Here's what I told my gf: nothing Oedipus about it, it's that strange kick of experiencing two cultures simultaneously. I managed to convince my (Chinese) gf to wear bindi (the stick-on variety) and salwar and accompany me to the temple tomorrow for Sankranti celebrations. You know, just so we do it like the desi couples do back in the desh, who hang out in temples and such…

Here’s what I told my gf: nothing Oedipus about it, it’s that strange kick of experiencing two cultures simultaneously.

]]> By: Amit http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3552 Amit Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:48:42 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3552 Excellent comment, Chanakya. Excellent comment, Chanakya.

]]> By: Amit http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3551 Amit Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:19:24 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3551 <i>"I suppose you could make a case that marking out married women in such a visible manner is a way to reinforce the Vedic requirement to get married and be a householder and all that jazz…. but most societies do that in one or another – like wedding rings. Society can only continue if people get married and have kidlets, after all, so it's no surprise that there are incentives to do so, and to mark out those who are doing their duty."</i> Another reason is to provide a visible indicator to single men in the society that this woman wearing sindoor or a ring is off-limits (at least for those men who are ethically inclined) and deserves to be treated accordingly, and not as a target of their amorous desires. “I suppose you could make a case that marking out married women in such a visible manner is a way to reinforce the Vedic requirement to get married and be a householder and all that jazz…. but most societies do that in one or another – like wedding rings. Society can only continue if people get married and have kidlets, after all, so it’s no surprise that there are incentives to do so, and to mark out those who are doing their duty.”

Another reason is to provide a visible indicator to single men in the society that this woman wearing sindoor or a ring is off-limits (at least for those men who are ethically inclined) and deserves to be treated accordingly, and not as a target of their amorous desires.

]]> By: adtis 38 http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3542 adtis 38 Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:08:20 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3542 Going by your hypothesis... "The use of lead oxide, which as you know is a poisonous compound, helped ensure that she was doing nothing to prolong her own life so as to outlive the man on whom her life and welfare depended" After being widowed why weren't these females given the same sindoor(to consume or put a bucket load on their head) to end their lives instead of wasting money to kill them under the garb of sati tradition. Kindly explain. I would love to hear it. -- I never knew lead was used in sindoor in ancient times, I was under the impression that usage of lead was introduced recently for its cheap synthetic imitation. Regarding a possible explanation.. there are many analogies in nature for corresponding concepts in sanatan conceptualization of the creation/god Shiva tattva = mercury, Shakti tattva = sphatic(quartz) Don't by so cynical. Going by your hypothesis…
“The use of lead oxide, which as you know is a poisonous compound, helped ensure that she was doing nothing to prolong her own life so as to outlive the man on whom her life and welfare depended”

After being widowed why weren’t these females given the same sindoor(to consume or put a bucket load on their head) to end their lives instead of wasting money to kill them under the garb of sati tradition.

Kindly explain. I would love to hear it.

–

I never knew lead was used in sindoor in ancient times, I was under the impression that usage of lead was introduced recently for its cheap synthetic imitation.
Regarding a possible explanation.. there are many analogies in nature for corresponding concepts in sanatan conceptualization of the creation/god

Shiva tattva = mercury, Shakti tattva = sphatic(quartz)

Don’t by so cynical.

]]> By: Gori Girl http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3459 Gori Girl Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:36:21 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3459 Chanakya, thank you for your insightful and well-worded comment. I hope that Shefaly or others can learn from it. Chanakya, thank you for your insightful and well-worded comment. I hope that Shefaly or others can learn from it.

]]> By: Chanakya http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-3354 Chanakya Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:14:49 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-3354 Shefaly, I am writing to follow up on your arguement about sindoor as a slow poison and GG's response. It is very painful to see you make an argument (or as you say 'present a hypothesis') without supporting evidence. I think what makes it even more dangerous is that a young vulnerable man or woman who hears you make this point or reads your comment may be influenced by it, and start believing, like you do, in the 'Indian conspiracy to slowly poison the women'. In the Indian culture, the sindoor, like the bindi, was made from ingredients derived from natural sources such as the rose flower. Of course, today it has been substituted by synthetic man-made compounds. Just as today most people drink milk from plastic cans instead of milking it themselves from cows (and don't even get me started on the drawbacks of plastic for you and I as individuals and for the world as a whole), most Indian women use sindoor or bindi made from synthetic material. Poor women in India, like poor people elsewhere, of course usually buy sindoor or bindi made from cheap material, and the rich usually have the luxury to buy more expensive stuff made from better quality material. I find it sad that traditional symbols of love and affection are today seen by many like Shefaly through a simplistic and ignorant lens. In their quixotic protest against some imagined masculine oppression, they wave their sword-like pens against windmills! In their view, marriage is a bondage for women (who by nature or nurture become primary care-givers of the family) and all men are oppressors who spend their day and night imagining ways to enslave and subjugate women. Of course, in this view, there is also no place for a women who doesn't join the quixotic wind-mill fighting. Women who wear the sindoor, put on the magalsutra, like the wedding ring etc. are seen as willing collaborators in men's oppression of women. I hope that those like Shefali begin to appreciate good things about our cultural traditions (whether Indian or Chinese or western) and start realizing that not all things that happen are done to oppress women. Putting the sindoor, like wearing a wedding ring, is a constant and visible reminder of marital commitment, which we seem to need more today than we needed in the last! Shefaly, I am writing to follow up on your arguement about sindoor as a slow poison and GG’s response. It is very painful to see you make an argument (or as you say ‘present a hypothesis’) without supporting evidence. I think what makes it even more dangerous is that a young vulnerable man or woman who hears you make this point or reads your comment may be influenced by it, and start believing, like you do, in the ‘Indian conspiracy to slowly poison the women’.

In the Indian culture, the sindoor, like the bindi, was made from ingredients derived from natural sources such as the rose flower. Of course, today it has been substituted by synthetic man-made compounds. Just as today most people drink milk from plastic cans instead of milking it themselves from cows (and don’t even get me started on the drawbacks of plastic for you and I as individuals and for the world as a whole), most Indian women use sindoor or bindi made from synthetic material. Poor women in India, like poor people elsewhere, of course usually buy sindoor or bindi made from cheap material, and the rich usually have the luxury to buy more expensive stuff made from better quality material.

I find it sad that traditional symbols of love and affection are today seen by many like Shefaly through a simplistic and ignorant lens. In their quixotic protest against some imagined masculine oppression, they wave their sword-like pens against windmills! In their view, marriage is a bondage for women (who by nature or nurture become primary care-givers of the family) and all men are oppressors who spend their day and night imagining ways to enslave and subjugate women. Of course, in this view, there is also no place for a women who doesn’t join the quixotic wind-mill fighting. Women who wear the sindoor, put on the magalsutra, like the wedding ring etc. are seen as willing collaborators in men’s oppression of women.

I hope that those like Shefali begin to appreciate good things about our cultural traditions (whether Indian or Chinese or western) and start realizing that not all things that happen are done to oppress women. Putting the sindoor, like wearing a wedding ring, is a constant and visible reminder of marital commitment, which we seem to need more today than we needed in the last!

]]> By: indianhomemaker http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2981 indianhomemaker Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:17:11 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2981 Gori Girl I find sindoor goes well with bright coloured saris. You may find many women have taken to wearing sindoor only occasionally (or not at all) because, 1. They find it inconvenient. 2. It is difficult to tell if the sindoor they have bought is really non toxic. 3. It doesn't go well with Western clothes. 4. Sometimes it's rebellion. There is this belief that application of sindoor (or wearing the tali, bichia or mangal sutra) makes the husband live longer. Whether the wife believes that or not, she must wear it everyday, and remove it along with all jewellery and bright coloured clothes, only when the husband dies. Amongst the compulsory symbols of 'suhaag' are also toe rings (bichia) that hurt if worn with shoes; or many women find bangles cumbersome while bathing or kneading the dough for making chapaties; mangal sutra is found inconvenient with small babies. But they are not allowed to take these off. A male commenter on my blog frankly admitted that he won't accept his wife taking off her mangal sutra. This compulsion makes many women hate these symbols and also makes them question the right their husbands have of not requiring to display their marital status. Widows are also considered 'abhagan' or 'upshakun'(one who brings bad luck). So are women who can't conceive ('baanjh'). Even today they are not permitted to take part in any auspicious ceremonies. Again there are no rules for men here. There is also the custom of dressing a new widow in bridal finery, and then breaking their bangles and wiping off their sindoor. Their coloured and festive clothes are taken away and they are required to wear plain white saris. These days dull coloured clothes are permitted to widows. Non vegetarian food, celebrations and make up is forbidden to widows. Widowers have no such restrictions. This built resentment and made women question the tradition of indicating their marital status. Today if you see a woman free to choose when to wear these symbols and when not to, then she is sort of considered a woman whose opinion and choices are valued by her family. <b>Only a well loved and respected woman would be 'allowed' to get away with giving up symbols of 'suhaag'.</b> Gori Girl I find sindoor goes well with bright coloured saris. You may find many women have taken to wearing sindoor only occasionally (or not at all) because,
1. They find it inconvenient.
2. It is difficult to tell if the sindoor they have bought is really non toxic.
3. It doesn’t go well with Western clothes.
4. Sometimes it’s rebellion.
There is this belief that application of sindoor (or wearing the tali, bichia or mangal sutra) makes the husband live longer. Whether the wife believes that or not, she must wear it everyday, and remove it along with all jewellery and bright coloured clothes, only when the husband dies.
Amongst the compulsory symbols of ’suhaag’ are also toe rings (bichia) that hurt if worn with shoes; or many women find bangles cumbersome while bathing or kneading the dough for making chapaties; mangal sutra is found inconvenient with small babies. But they are not allowed to take these off.
A male commenter on my blog frankly admitted that he won’t accept his wife taking off her mangal sutra. This compulsion makes many women hate these symbols and also makes them question the right their husbands have of not requiring to display their marital status.

Widows are also considered ‘abhagan’ or ‘upshakun’(one who brings bad luck). So are women who can’t conceive (‘baanjh’). Even today they are not permitted to take part in any auspicious ceremonies. Again there are no rules for men here.

There is also the custom of dressing a new widow in bridal finery, and then breaking their bangles and wiping off their sindoor. Their coloured and festive clothes are taken away and they are required to wear plain white saris. These days dull coloured clothes are permitted to widows. Non vegetarian food, celebrations and make up is forbidden to widows. Widowers have no such restrictions. This built resentment and made women question the tradition of indicating their marital status.

Today if you see a woman free to choose when to wear these symbols and when not to, then she is sort of considered a woman whose opinion and choices are valued by her family. Only a well loved and respected woman would be ‘allowed’ to get away with giving up symbols of ’suhaag’.

]]> By: meghana http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2725 meghana Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:06:44 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2725 Hello Gorigirl, Just came inn your blog and found very interesting posts and comments.Now that you are a part of India I am sure you would like to know more and more about Indian traditions,Hinduism.So I invite you to my blog. Also there is a post on Sindor,which I guess you would like to read.Giving you the direct link to that post.Would wait to meet you on my blog. http://meghanaunleashed.blogspot.com/2009/06/sindoor.html Hello Gorigirl,

Just came inn your blog and found very interesting posts and comments.Now that you are a part of India I am sure you would like to know more and more about Indian traditions,Hinduism.So I invite you to my blog.

Also there is a post on Sindor,which I guess you would like to read.Giving you the direct link to that post.Would wait to meet you on my blog.
http://meghanaunleashed.blogspot.com/2009/06/sindoor.html

]]> By: Gori Girl http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2668 Gori Girl Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:25:06 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2668 Heh - I love your point:<blockquote>Regarding the chakra thing- if this is true, then the only bone to pick is that why only married women have the right to attune their chakras with sindoor.</blockquote> Also great point on the cosmetics in the West issue. ;-) And yeah, the comments section went a little crazy on this one! Way touchier subject than I had initially thought. I think part of the "subservient" belief regarding sindoor comes from the fact that men do not have a similar outward marking in India, while wedding rings are (now) worn by both sexes in most of the West. Heh – I love your point:
Regarding the chakra thing- if this is true, then the only bone to pick is that why only married women have the right to attune their chakras with sindoor.

Also great point on the cosmetics in the West issue. ;-)

And yeah, the comments section went a little crazy on this one! Way touchier subject than I had initially thought. I think part of the “subservient” belief regarding sindoor comes from the fact that men do not have a similar outward marking in India, while wedding rings are (now) worn by both sexes in most of the West.

]]> By: Jennifer http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2658 Jennifer Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:10:24 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2658 There is just so much to say!! I am an American married to an Indian, living in America. I wear sindoor- but not the powder- the kumkum paste because it's not as messy- occasionally. I used to wear it more frequently and yes, people thought I hurt myself. Others were a bit afraid to ask. If one says that putting this makes a woman subservient or property of a man- I wonder why this is said about an Indian custom, but wearing wedding rings as many Westerners do, is not said to be the same thing. These are both symbols of marriage. In the West often because women shake hands when they meet others, and can shake hands of unmarried men (not that Indian women don't but traditionally, did not) men will see the ring, and know she's married. Like Catrina said it's a symbol of marriage, but in a culture where a man is less likely to see the hand and can easily see the head- and hair part- this symbol makes a lot of sense. Some also believe this part of the body is sensitive being on the scalp, and this protects it rather than harms. Others believe that based on the chakra system, it's a spiritual thing. Regarding the chakra thing- if this is true, then the only bone to pick is that why only married women have the right to attune their chakras with sindoor. Coming back to the mercury 'problem'- when we classify sindoor as a cosmetic because it's made by cosmetics industry there is another view point on this. When I lived in Chennai I was suprized to notice this- women gave importance to only a few adornments to the face cosmetically- bindi (sticker or drawn on), kajol (eyeliner), and sindoor if married and lip balm for the more 'sophisticated' ones. That being said- this is ALOT less make up than society requires for a typical American woman and if a typical American woman puts on all these store bought cosmetics daily for their entire adult life this is not only more chemicals over a life time than sindoor, but also you could say this is also a subservient thing. I mean why do girls have to wear that much make up anyhow? We are beautiful without it! :) It's nice to take things out of context and make a monster out of them, but we have to see how does such things come up in our own culture- see different sides to the issue then make a decision. It definitely can be 'chalked' up to a different standard of beauty. @ Bala Great one! @ Aditya good insight... the craziness of it makes me laugh! @ Auntie- good point the girls were much younger... so the dying off theory again has been disproved! :) Also you're right- I also think the red and black combo is stunning. Nothing beats it. In fact this beauty is discussed in my favorite Tamil song Kannaku mai Azaghu (meaning the eyeliner on the eyes is beautiful) see it here http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=255924&TPN=4 (it's near the bottom) this song was sung at our wedding! :) @ Amanda.. Wow that is a great social history lesson. @neo- I disagree with husband worship as such. But then shouldn't husband and wife worship each other- with divine love and respect? Anyhow I am an American never grew up in the traditions, and when my Indian hubby put the sindoor on me in the wedding ceremony I cried as if he were putting the ring on me or 'kissing the bride'. I akin it to those things in the Christian wedding. It's symbolic like that. I also believed him putting that on me knew we were finally together, married and we would love each other forever. Alot gets tied up in symbols!! @cagey.. Curious if you've been to Kerala. Christians in Kerala have some exotic dresses. Not sure about Catholics. Syrians traditionally have huge gold rings that get put in the top part of their ear- and how they tie mundu (two piece kerala sari) is unique. I am wondering about how Catholics in Kerala tie sari- I am wondering if they tie the mundu int he back in a fan shape? But Kerala is a bit more simple when coming to all these traditions, i think. @gori girl ... I wanted to read all the comments but just can't! How do you do it! I am impressed. Thanks for posting this and making us think! @Catrina... Wow... There is just so much to say!!

I am an American married to an Indian, living in America. I wear sindoor- but not the powder- the kumkum paste because it’s not as messy- occasionally. I used to wear it more frequently and yes, people thought I hurt myself. Others were a bit afraid to ask.

If one says that putting this makes a woman subservient or property of a man- I wonder why this is said about an Indian custom, but wearing wedding rings as many Westerners do, is not said to be the same thing. These are both symbols of marriage. In the West often because women shake hands when they meet others, and can shake hands of unmarried men (not that Indian women don’t but traditionally, did not) men will see the ring, and know she’s married. Like Catrina said it’s a symbol of marriage, but in a culture where a man is less likely to see the hand and can easily see the head- and hair part- this symbol makes a lot of sense.

Some also believe this part of the body is sensitive being on the scalp, and this protects it rather than harms. Others believe that based on the chakra system, it’s a spiritual thing. Regarding the chakra thing- if this is true, then the only bone to pick is that why only married women have the right to attune their chakras with sindoor.

Coming back to the mercury ‘problem’- when we classify sindoor as a cosmetic because it’s made by cosmetics industry there is another view point on this. When I lived in Chennai I was suprized to notice this- women gave importance to only a few adornments to the face cosmetically- bindi (sticker or drawn on), kajol (eyeliner), and sindoor if married and lip balm for the more ’sophisticated’ ones. That being said- this is ALOT less make up than society requires for a typical American woman and if a typical American woman puts on all these store bought cosmetics daily for their entire adult life this is not only more chemicals over a life time than sindoor, but also you could say this is also a subservient thing. I mean why do girls have to wear that much make up anyhow? We are beautiful without it! :) It’s nice to take things out of context and make a monster out of them, but we have to see how does such things come up in our own culture- see different sides to the issue then make a decision.

It definitely can be ‘chalked’ up to a different standard of beauty.

@ Bala Great one!

@ Aditya good insight… the craziness of it makes me laugh!

@ Auntie- good point the girls were much younger… so the dying off theory again has been disproved! :) Also you’re right- I also think the red and black combo is stunning. Nothing beats it. In fact this beauty is discussed in my favorite Tamil song Kannaku mai Azaghu (meaning the eyeliner on the eyes is beautiful) see it here http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=255924&TPN=4 (it’s near the bottom) this song was sung at our wedding! :)

@ Amanda.. Wow that is a great social history lesson.

@neo- I disagree with husband worship as such. But then shouldn’t husband and wife worship each other- with divine love and respect? Anyhow I am an American never grew up in the traditions, and when my Indian hubby put the sindoor on me in the wedding ceremony I cried as if he were putting the ring on me or ‘kissing the bride’. I akin it to those things in the Christian wedding. It’s symbolic like that. I also believed him putting that on me knew we were finally together, married and we would love each other forever. Alot gets tied up in symbols!!

@cagey.. Curious if you’ve been to Kerala. Christians in Kerala have some exotic dresses. Not sure about Catholics. Syrians traditionally have huge gold rings that get put in the top part of their ear- and how they tie mundu (two piece kerala sari) is unique. I am wondering about how Catholics in Kerala tie sari- I am wondering if they tie the mundu int he back in a fan shape? But Kerala is a bit more simple when coming to all these traditions, i think.

@gori girl … I wanted to read all the comments but just can’t! How do you do it! I am impressed. Thanks for posting this and making us think!

@Catrina… Wow…

]]> By: Gori Girl http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2613 Gori Girl Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:47:56 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2613 Drop me a line when you start your blog, Torquee. I'd be interested in reading it. Drop me a line when you start your blog, Torquee. I’d be interested in reading it.

]]> By: Gori Girl http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2612 Gori Girl Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:46:45 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2612 Thanks for the quick historic recap - I wasn't aware of the glue issue in bindis. Thanks for the quick historic recap – I wasn’t aware of the glue issue in bindis.

]]> By: Gori Girl http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2611 Gori Girl Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:43:34 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2611 Looks like there might have been a lag between your first comment being written & showing up. Sorry about that! Thanks for taking the time to retype everything, tho. :-) I think the parallel of sindoor with hijab is quite interesting, since both are connected to religion (and religions that seen as being tied to specific regions of the world and types of people), but are also tied to cultural practices. Looks like there might have been a lag between your first comment being written & showing up. Sorry about that! Thanks for taking the time to retype everything, tho. :-)

I think the parallel of sindoor with hijab is quite interesting, since both are connected to religion (and religions that seen as being tied to specific regions of the world and types of people), but are also tied to cultural practices.

]]> By: Bringhi http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2577 Bringhi Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:47:38 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2577 There seems to be some confusion here regarding the traditional use of mercury sulfide sindoor. As a practitioner in the Nath Aghori tradition who has lived long time in India, I would like to add to the discussion that yes, mercury sulfide has been used traditionally as sindoor, and is considered the best quality in tantric rituals. Ayurvedic physicians use mercury sulfide as medicine, in proper dosage and proper admixture with other compounds to reduce its toxicity. Yes, Ayurvedic physicians are aware of mercury's toxic qualities in high dosage. As well as using it on the forehead (usually mixed with an oil - these days we use peppermint oil for its cooling qualities), it is also used internally, mixed with honey and cream as well as various medicinal spices (such as cardamon) depending on the prescription. This helps to thin the blood and cool down overactivity of the brain. Mercury sulfide is not a cheap alternative. The real stuff is still quite expensive compared to the synthetics available, and traditionally the price of mercury was higher even than gold. There seems to be some confusion here regarding the traditional use of mercury sulfide sindoor. As a practitioner in the Nath Aghori tradition who has lived long time in India, I would like to add to the discussion that yes, mercury sulfide has been used traditionally as sindoor, and is considered the best quality in tantric rituals. Ayurvedic physicians use mercury sulfide as medicine, in proper dosage and proper admixture with other compounds to reduce its toxicity. Yes, Ayurvedic physicians are aware of mercury’s toxic qualities in high dosage. As well as using it on the forehead (usually mixed with an oil – these days we use peppermint oil for its cooling qualities), it is also used internally, mixed with honey and cream as well as various medicinal spices (such as cardamon) depending on the prescription. This helps to thin the blood and cool down overactivity of the brain. Mercury sulfide is not a cheap alternative. The real stuff is still quite expensive compared to the synthetics available, and traditionally the price of mercury was higher even than gold.

]]> By: Bengal Voice http://gorigirl.com/wearing-sindoor#comment-2540 Bengal Voice Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:05:28 +0000 http://gorigirl.com/?p=654#comment-2540 We learn something every day. So that's how Sindoor was traditionally made at home: by mixing turmeric with lime. That explains how Indian men tried to murder their women - with turmeric and lime *sarcasm*. Good heavens, that sounds like a healthy snack to me ;) We learn something every day. So that’s how Sindoor was traditionally made at home: by mixing turmeric with lime. That explains how Indian men tried to murder their women – with turmeric and lime *sarcasm*. Good heavens, that sounds like a healthy snack to me ;)

]]>