I sat down with Aditya’s parents, Maa and Baba, a few nights ago with a list of eight questions to find out their views on American culture and intercultural relationships… and we ended up talking for over an hour, thus necessitating a Part One and a Part Two. Today’s portion focuses on the early days: their worries on sending their youngest son, Aditya, to a foreign country, thoughts on American culture, dating, and their first interactions with me. Technical details: I transcribed the interview from a sound recording, and have only edited (in square brackets) for clarity or in keeping with Maa & Baba’s wishes for certain things to be “off the record”. My comments and notes post-transcription are in red.

GG: What were your concerns when Aditya came to the US to study?

Maa: Whether he’ll be able to cope with everything; [I was] concerned with his studies. And we didn’t have that much of money to support him, so whether he would be able to support himself.

Baba: Firstly, the financial part. Secondly, he had never lived away from home – this was the first time he’d be living away from home. Thirdly, it was a strange country for him, the surroundings, the education system, language, food, everything was different! And I knew that he would be able to cope with the things, but I had doubted how easily he’d be able to cope up with it.

Aditya was the first member of his family to travel to the US. Maa and Baba first came to visit after his older brother, Dada, also moved to the US, about half way through Aditya’s college career.

GG: Do you remember what you guys thought of the US then? What your impressions, your ideas of it were?

Baba: Actually, as far as I am concerned, when I came to the US, I was more or less not surprised. I knew the US quite a lot – from movies, from books that I have studied, and I expected it to be more or less like this. The only thing is that I did not expect the US to be so huge as a country.

Maa: Actually, when I came for the first time, my whole concern was for Aditya.  So I was not interested in how the US was – [I] only wanted to know how he was.

GG: Did you have any worries about Aditya being at a US university, meeting Americans, maybe dating or falling in love with one of them or anything like that?

Maa: No, I didn’t have any concerns.

GG: Did you think he would date Americans when he came to the US?

Baba: No, I never thought that was an issue. If I liked someone at the right time, right age, I always said yes. Of course, I had certain reservations, and that has not happened.

*waggles eyebrows at Baba’s phrasing*

GG: What reservations?

Baba: That is off the record.

<Aditya laughs>

For the record, I still haven’t heard what the reservations were.

GG: Were you aware of his social activities when he was at the university?

Baba: Yes, he used to write, sometimes spoke to his mother… not to me. From what I could gather, I figured I had a fairly good idea of his activities. Of course, some of it was my imagination…

Maa: Nah, I knew only the portion that he used to tell us. But I [only] know half of it.

GG: So you knew that he had… (to Aditya) how many girlfriends was it?

Aditya: I told them…

Eight girlfriends his first year, I believe, (EIGHT!) and he tossed them all in two weeks or less. Shameless.

Baba: Yeah, he had many [girlfriends] in Delhi also…

Maa: Actually, we are not very much, uh, concerned with children’s girlfriends or boyfriends.

Baba: As long as you are not doing anything wrong, if your aim, your studies are going properly, I think that there is nothing wrong in having girlfriends. How you take that relation matters… Like, I had in India at one time I knew a lot of girls – and of course, my parents were also very liberal. Even today, if I meet them, if I get a chance to meet them, there’s nothing wrong in this, I always felt. Yes, if somebody has some bad intention, that is different. For that…

Maa: Nah, it is very natural. There is nothing to worry about. If I know my children, they will choose the right thing.

Baba: No, as long as a child knows what is right or wrong, there is no need for the parent to worry. And I, at least, have the confidence in my children; they can recognize right.

Maa: And in that way my impression of Aditya is very high.

Baba: That every mother has!

Maa: Nah, he’s a moralist type.

Baba: Yes, he’s a moralist type.

I suspect – but do not know one way or another for sure – that the attitude that Maa & Baba express here is pretty unusual for mainstream Indian culture. Heck, I suspect it’s pretty unusual for the majority of American parents of teenagers too. Anyways, with the basics of Maa & Baba’s views on dating established, we now changed tacks to start discussing Aditya’s relationship with me, which was more serious than those with previous girlfriends (i.e. I lasted more than two weeks).

GG: Do you remember when he told you he was dating me? Do you remember what he said?

Baba: Yes.

Maa: Yes. When you two had some difference of opinion, and I told him that this girl is a … in our language, Saraswati, it means goddess of learning – she looks like that.

Aditya: This was when we were broken up.

Baba: Maa said that you better make up!

You can read my take on first meeting Aditya’s parents here. In short, when I first met Maa, Aditya and I had downgraded our relationship to “an icy friendship” due to quarreling too much.

Aditya: By the way, the only reason that Baba and I didn’t talk over the phone while I was at the university was because Baba telephone conversations are always telegraphic.

<general laughter >

The first question he asks you is “How are you?”, and by the time you have said, “I’m good” the conversation is over and the phone has been hung up.

Maa: [He’s like that] with everybody.

Yes, yes he is.

Aditya: Yes, with everybody. When we were growing up… I mean, I don’t even know how common telephones were when they were growing up. When we were growing up, Baba used to be away, you know, and we had to do trunk calls. And in the middle of the night, it’d be super expensive, and Maa would be running down the stairs at 11:30 pm, because, you know, there’s a trunk call with Baba.

For Americans or others scratching their heads, a trunk call is the British English (and, apparently, Indian English) word for a long-distance call, especially one routed by a real, live operator.

GG: So what were your expectations for a daughter-in-law? Before you knew about me or anything – just general expectations.

Maa: I want only the good relationship and to look after my children – daughter-in-law or son-in-law. Look after my children, and a good relationship with us. Nothing else.

For the following anecdote, Bhabi is Aditya’s sister-in-law, Dada is his older brother, and Didi is his older sister.

Baba: You see, before Bhabi’s marriage [to Dada]… Bhabi was in school, Dada was in hostel, they had not met each other. They were in class 7 or 8. And she was learning some dance in Calcutta. She came to our house because Didi was in the same class – Bhabi had missed some classes, and she came to make up those missed classes. I was working away from Calcutta, and I used to come [home] during the weekends. I came… it was a duplex, our house was. I was climbing the stairs and I saw Bhabi. And when she came, I said, “Who is this girl?” And Maa said, “Didi’s dance mate.” And I said, “I would like to get a girl like that as daughter-in-law [for Dada]”… By God’s grace, that has happened. Of course it happened after…
<argument starts over how long >
Five, six years, let us say. So after that, I always expected that Aditya’s wife would be something like Bhabi. In all respects.

GG: Punjabi?

Baba: No, not Punjabi. I don’t look at Bhabi as Punjabi. See, this language or religion – I feel everything is the same. So I don’t look at a Punjabi or American or European… My thing is – “similar” means – she should be intelligent, sharing, and good in studies, plus she should be something where we are comfortable, my son is comfortable, and she should be someone who gets into a relation[ship] for lifelong.

Because there are a lot of cases I have found where people don’t – the girls or the boys – don’t think beyond certain time: four years, five years, ten years. But I always felt that my children should get a partner for the whole life. Not part time or, I would say, “live together” type. That is the type of girl I expected. She should be presentable, so that people don’t say – don’t take it – that she doesn’t fit into the family. I feel that that is a bigger thing, because I still feel family is much bigger than self. And that was what [were] my expectations, and I feel that I am quite happy on that one respect. The rest of the things, small things, would be different between individuals. Those better to not be discussed, because everyone has their own way of looking at things. But my general expectations for my daughter-in-law or son-in-law were the same. It is not that [the expectations] for daughter-in-law different [from] son-in-law.

While I suspect that Baba cares a bit more for what others think than I do, I must admit I was quite pleased with his perspective on this – I really couldn’t ask for a more considerate and reasonable set of expectations.

GG: What do you remember Aditya telling you about me before you met me? Like on the phone.

Baba: He didn’t tell me anything!

GG: Aditya, is this true?

Aditya: Because Baba’s phone calls are so short!

Baba: That has already been said. Whatever he said –

GG: But he went back to India one summer.

Baba: That is true, but Aditya is very close to – my children are all more close to – Maa for such things, for such topics. So they always spoke to her, and she only told me that much that was…

Maa: Screened!

<general laughter>

Baba: Yeah, little bit. I always got a filtered version.

GG: Okay, Maa, what do you remember Aditya telling you about me?

Maa: In 2006 when he came, he told me. And I told him it is okay, make your studies properly, and then you can do whatever you feel like, I don’t mind. And what else…?

Aditya: Nah, we talked about it when I was in Madras, right?

Maa: So long time back… That time I [hadn’t yet met] her, right? So I told [him] that I did not know what type of girl she is. I was not very keen… Hmmm… I am very scared that time, because he should complete his studies and things. Because in our [country], in India, a girl or boy’s future is very… We are very concerned about their future. All parents [are this way]. So I was a little scared that he may not—

Baba: – do well in his exams or things like that.

GG: Is there anything you wish Aditya had told, that might have helped your fears more or your concerns?

<general confusion over the meaning of the question>

Okay, before you met me, maybe you had some concerns… Was there anything that Aditya could have told you, that could have helped those concerns?

Baba: No, I don’t think with me [there were any concerns].

Maa: Yeah, I was concerned. Because he told [me] that you have some health problem. So I was concerned if it was very serious type. I don’t know anything. So I thought that health problem was very very… <worried hand gesture>.

I have a genetic blood-clotting disorder – which I only found out my freshman year while dating Aditya – which will be a lifelong concern, although it is perfectly managable with a little daily medication and awareness. At that time, however, it was a new-ish thing, and neither Aditya nor I were sure of how serious it would turn out to be. Luckily, it falls more on the side of, say, adult asthma or a severe allergy in seriousness than, for example, diabetes.

Aditya: See, part of the problem – the reason I spoke more to Maa than to Baba – [was] because I always did feel that… Baba and I had talked about things in passing, not detailed things… I always felt that Baba would be supportive, no matter what decision I took, you know? Like I always say, Sachin gets all this advice before he goes in to bat, and once he goes in to bat, it’s up to him, he has to make the decisions. And I always felt that Baba would be supportive over whatever decision I took. I was more concerned about how Maa would react. That’s why I talked more with Maa about it than with Baba.

GG: (to Maa) Does that surprise you?

Maa: No, [I’m] not surprised. But I was concerned when he said that she has some health problem – that was why I was concerned. But when I have seen you, I told him, that she is the best for you.

GG: Okay. Anything else that you thought when you met me for the first time?

Maa: I felt that you were very, um, that your approach was very nice. Your way of talking, your behavior, I liked it very much. Even I told my relations in India, “She is a nice girl.”

GG: So, on some of the blogs I read, some of the Indian parents aren’t very happy about their sons or their daughters dating an American. So people give out various advice, like “you should do this when you meet them”, or “you should do that”. For instance, one of the things that they advise is that you should dress up very nicely, maybe wear a sari when you meet the parents for the first time.

<Baba makes a wincing face>

Maa: I am also no. Even to Bhabi, I told [that it was not necessary] … You are an American girl, but even to Bhabi…

Baba: If my daughter can put on trousers, can go [out] in skirts, what is wrong with my daughter-in-law – someone else’s daughter [doing that sort of thing]. That is how I look at things.

Aditya’s parents are typically very pleased when I wear Indian-style clothing, but I have never felt any pressure – even while in India – to wear Indian clothing instead of jeans and a t-shirt.

Maa: Even to Bhabi I said that, you can wear whatever you like in my house. One thing I told her, when people from village come –

Baba: Yeah, social functions that is, it is better that you put on sari. It is not a compulsion [compulsory] to put on saris, she may put on salwar kameeze also. But [with a sari] that is easier to blend in, because everyone else will be in sari. If you come in sari you will feel a little [more] comfortable.

While I think you can fit into Indian cities just fine in Western clothes, I felt more comfortable – and slightly less conspicuous – wearing salwar kameezes or saris in more rural towns.

Maa: And, nah, one thing I told Bhabi, when people from villages, remote villages – we have got relations there – so when they will come it is better to wear saris. Because they will come for half an hour, for one hour. They will see that this girl is settled in [well] with this family, and their impression is good for the daughter-in-law.

Baba: Because I feel, that people should talk good about our, my family, and of course my daughter-in-law is part of it.

Maa: Even my daughter follows the same thing, it is not [just] for my daughter-in-law.

Aditya: Did you have any concerns, that, you know, other people, people who would be visiting from remote villages… Did you have any concerns that they would see the relationship as a bad thing, and would think less of the family?

Baba: Actually, in our family and among our relations, I have got the impression that generally I do right things. Therefore, in my house, if something happens – what I have accepted – generally the general impression is that that is right. So I never had any doubt that if I am comfortable, and if my daughter-in-law is comfortable with me, that others would have anything to say. So that advantage I have. In my family or my relations, I have a different, I would say, position. And it puts my daughter-in-law in a little elevated position.

Maa: In our family nobody told anything. Even neighbors… Well, I’m not really sure, I’ve never had any concerns [about what they say].

Baba: I have the one advantage that often, when things go wrong, and two parties speak, and to one party I have said okay, the other party, they also accept it. So that way, I know that if I have accepted something nobody would say or make a remark that would be negative.

Maa: Everybody says that, “If he agrees, than it is okay.”

Baba: I knew that my children will not make a mistake or take a wrong position knowingly. And if even they have taken a wrong position knowingly, I would scold them in private, but I would stand by them.

GG: Baba, do you want to say something about the first time you met me? I came with Bear [my father’s golden lab]…

Baba: Yeah, what I remember, is that I had my own expectations. And I feel that I was quite happy that you met most of those.

Maa: But not all…

Baba: Hmmm, but, mostly. Because one this is that you were very easy-going, you were not stiff, you didn’t want to show off, that is what impressed me most.  Generally what happens is that, I feel, courtship is a process of selling.

GG: To Aditya or to you?

Baba: No, anybody. Why? You see, when it is not marriage, it is courtship… I am meeting somebody for two or three hours. I put on my best dress, my best perfume, comb my hair thrice, twice shave. That is because I want to create an impression. But in married life, what we find, early in the morning before brushing your teeth you meet your husband. So that is a completely different [thing]. Before you get into that relation,  you are trying to make an impression – like packaging of any consumer goods… The packaging is good, you accept it, only after opening do you know, uh-oh, mistake, mistake. <Baba shakes his finger>

<general laughter>

Okay. Therefore, generally, when somebody comes on such thing, my impression is that they try to impress. If elders are present in India that happens. Like when I went to meet Maa, the whole family was looking at me [to see] what I [would] do.

Maa: But, you know…

Baba: That is different! We will talk to you afterwards. You will get your chance, okay!

<general laughter>

Anything that is possible! The meals that the would-be bride has not cooked, they are produced as if she has cooked. The handiwork that she has not done, they will try to [show it off]. And if she has done, they will come running, “She has done it!” They will make her sit…

Maa: Earlier…

Baba: Okay, nowadays they don’t do it, but something like it still goes on. Therefore, I always say, that salesmanship part of it I wanted to eliminate. After that, the person I can meet, he or she is the right person. When you came, you came like a girl next door, you were very easy-going, you didn’t have the hesitation for the first time, meeting a foreigner, [meeting] Aditya’s father, and when you have got all those horrible pictures of Indian in-laws…

<general laughter>

Yet, after that, the way you came and reacted was quite good.

I wish I had arrived like the girl next door – instead, I arrived a bit sweaty from the mile & a half walk from my dad’s house to Dada’s place, where Maa and Baba were staying. But Bear got a nice long walk out of it, and I got bonus points for bringing the dog along.

GG: And so what expectation didn’t I meet? Maa said that I didn’t meet all the expectations.

Baba: No, that is what Maa has said. I have not said it as of yet.

Maa: That I will say after the interview. Off record!

I ended up badgering them into telling at least one expectation I failed to meet “on record” – but that will have to wait for the next part of the interview!

(Little do they know that if I am stymied in blogging about their dastardly actions of cleaning our house & cooking delicious meals I have no problem in getting irrationally upset about some other minor issue. For example: the fridge has been reorganized without my express permission, and the dishwasher was inefficiently loaded, resulting in one less cup being washed than if I had loaded it. I’m still reeling!)

Since I haven’t had a chance to sit down and think through a post lately, I thought I’d share with you the transcript I’ve typed up in spare minutes from an NPR segment called Intercultural Relationships: Can They Work?. I’m not a professional transcriber, so there may be errors – but I figured something was better than nothing for those of you who can’t (or don’t like to) listen to podcasts. The segment (and my post title) was developed from an article in East West Magazine. The article, which you can find here, is quite complimentary to the NPR segment, and I encourage you to read it as well as the transcript below. I’ve bolded the parts I find particularly interesting, and will post my thoughts on it tomorrow in the comments section.

[Begin transcript]

NPR: It’s time for a regular visit with one of our cultural coaches. Today: “You’re marrying him?” Wedding season is around the corner; brides and grooms will be blushing their way down aisles across America. So what better time to ask an expert about what you might need to know if you’re heading to commitment with a person with a different racial or ethnic background? We got this idea from our friends at East West Magazine; the April/May issue has a feature called “To hug or not to hug” about how to handle that all-important meeting with the parents.

And joining us now from Phoenix is Anita Malik. She is editor of East West Magazine. And from her office in Poughkeepsie, New York, we’re pleased to be joined by Lubna Somjee, a psychologist; she’s quoted in the article. Thanks for being here ladies!

Anita, why did you commission this article? You must have been hearing about this from readers or perhaps from personal experience?

Anita: A little bit of both. Actually, simply put, interracial marriages and couplings are growing at a very increasing rate and we tend to focus with that a lot with the magazine, but had never done anything where – how do you deal with this within your own family and with your parents? And that was something we were hearing from readers, that, you know, it’s great to know that the statistics are there, and that this is happening, but how do we deal with it in our own lives, with our own unique circumstances?

NPR: And Dr. Somjee, you are offering tips – or you offered some tips in the magazine – but in the years in which you’ve been practicing, and you’ve worked with couples around these issues, are there some classic cultural clashes that you’ve seen?

Dr. Somjee: Yes, I mean, I’ve definitely seen some classic cultural clashes. Although many times, people have been able to sort of work through them. One of the classic issues is when neither parties have sort of prepped themselves for what to expect when they meet the parents. They think they have, but they really haven’t. Although most of the time those meetings have gone fairly well, in spite of.

NPR: Is that really the case? I just wonder whether, over the course of your practice, do most of the couples that come to you, do they eventually stay together, or do you see couples breaking up because of these differences?

Dr. Somjee: Most of the couples I see do stay together, but I would not say that it was very rare that some couples would break up. For example, a young couple I worked with had an interracial union and met each other’s families, and it wasn’t until they met each other’s families that it sort of punctuated for them how different their backgrounds were. And they came home, and for the first time had a much more serious, in-depth discussion of how their culture impacts their every day lives and realized how different their views were on a lot of things. And unfortunately, for that couple, their differences were irreconcilable.

NPR: Anita, you mention in the article, I’m sorry, which I know you didn’t write, but, you know, you edited it, that in every culture meeting the parents can be kind of fraught with anxiety, but in the Asian culture, in couples where there may be an Asian or Asian-American partner, it can be particularly stressful. Why is that?

Anita: Asian immigrant parents typically have a very set view of who their children should marry. It’s a different type of relationship, but every family has their own traditions, and sometimes a lot of that becomes very, very specific to what the parents want. It’s just a very different child-parent relationship. It gets a little bit more tricky, and so it can be difficult.

NPR: What were some of the scenarios that were described in the article? I thought it was hilarious, actually…

Anita: There’s a lot of humor to this too, and I think that’s the important lesson: that you need to be able to actually laugh at yourself when you make – you’re going to make faux pas when you meet the parents. But the title of the piece actually comes from one scenario where both parts of the couple were Asian, from two different countries. And one family was very warm… the parents wanted to hug everybody, and the other family couldn’t really handle the hugs. And so that became an issue between the couple, and they finally came to a point where they said, “Well, this is how my family is going to be, and this is how your family is going to be, and they’re going to have to work it out.”

NPR: So, Dr. Somjee, help us here. In a situation like that, where the parents are meeting for the first time, what advice do you offer to make it go smoothly? Or maybe, maybe making it go smoothly isn’t the whole point of the thing, just to be honest. I don’t know – tell us.

Dr. Somjee: When you’re meeting someone’s family, knowing what their ethnic background is, or their racial background or religion obviously is important, but it’s only a first basic step. And really, the most important thing to understand is, what is that family’s relationship to each of its cultural variables. Otherwise you kinda get on a slippery slope in terms of making assumptions to stereotyping.

NPR: So how would that information best be acquired? Do you try to be very explicit with the partner and say, “Alright, are your parents huggers or not? Will they expect me to bring a present? If so, what kind?”

Dr. Somjee: There’s a couple ways to do that. One is, you know, get a sense of what the expectations of the meeting are from your significant other. Is it going to be a casual or formal get together? But the other piece of it is, your significant other is often steeped in their own culture so things that may be commonplace to them, they may not even think to tell you. And I think one of the best ways to get information from your significant other is through storytelling. Try to have your significant other tell you stories that illustrate different occasions in your family, or different traditions in the family.

NPR: I have an email that I wanted to share with both of you, ladies. And it says:

“This might be a good question for your coach. I just had a second date with a lovely professional woman who was born in and raised in Sapporo, Japan. She now works in the same East Coast city that I do. Our third date is this weekend. I’m a professional African-American man. What should I know about the Asian approach to dating? Is there such a thing? The first date ended in her bowing, when in Rome, I thought, so I bowed too. The second date ended with a hug & a smile, so I hugged her and smiled back. So far, so good I’m thinking. We’re able to talk for hours… but what do I need to keep in mind?”

So, who wants to start, Anita, is this a common scenario among readers?

Anita: Yeah, I think so. Apparently she’s a little more traditional. It sounds like she actually has immigrated from Japan and not necessarily born here and in that case, I think he just really needs to ask her. But I would say, speak to her about how her family would feel… ahead of time.

NPR: Interesting. Dr. Somjee, what do you think?

Dr. Somjee: Part of it depends on, are you dating to date, or are you dating to marry? Because if someone is asked that question & is scared off by it, at least you know where they are in terms of their dating and what they want from it.

NPR: So what I’m hearing you say is, “ask the questions sooner rather than later”.

Dr. Somjee: Absolutely.

NPR: I’m so glad I’m married.

Anita: Hard, isn’t it, this dating thing.

NPR: It is hard! You all have my respect. Dr. Somjee, I understand you are also interculturally married. If it’s not too personal, can you offer any guidelines from your personal experience?

Dr. Somjee: Yes, I’ve been married and in a relationship with my husband for about ten years. He is white and I am South Asian and I actually come from a community where arranged marriages are absolutely still the norm. So when my husband was to meet my parents, I prepped myself… and I prepped my parents.

NPR: What about persons who perhaps weren’t welcomed so warmly into the fold? How would you advise them to move beyond that?

Dr. Somjee: One thing is, you know, you may have an opportunity to meet the family again and again. And if so, take advantage of those opportunities by getting to know them better. You know, unfortunately, there may be some families who ultimately say, “You know what, we cannot do this. No matter how nice you may be, no matter how much we like you in general, this is not something we can accept in our family.” And at this point you as a couple have to decide whether you’re willing to take the risk, and those are hard questions you’ll have to ask yourself before you even start this process.

NPR: But, hard questions that have to be asked.

Dr. Somjee: Yeah.

[End Transcript]

I’d love to hear everyone thoughts on this NPR piece, and the accompying article from East West Magazine. Good advice, bad advice? Is “ask questions sooner rather than later” a good policy to follow? Anyone tried storytelling as a way to learn about family customs?

Hi, I’m a Sikh girl and have been going out with my white bf for 3 yrs. I’ve always known my parents would disapprove…they’ve always said if I brought anyone but a Sikh guy home they would want nothing to do with me and the whole family would be disappointed. My fear and guilt have meant that more and more, recently, I haven’t been happy in my relationship until a few weeks ago when I decided to end it. but now I’m regretting it and don’t know what to do!!! He was a wonderful guy who loved me and accepted me completely, but because of the guilt and loyalty I feel towards my family I feel I have lost the only man I will ever be happy with.

Reading all the comments on the post, Indian Parental Problems: When Your Intercultural or Interracial Relationship is Suddenly an Issue, I realize I’m not alone and that there are others who go through this, but sometimes it feels so lonely. I was just wondering how people come up with the courage to tell their parents in the first place and how do you handle the guilt?!?

She later added in an email conversation with me:

Here’s a little bit more about my situation…my sister(she’s 20) knows about my bf but refuses to acknowledge him or our relationship, I think out of fear of what it would do to our family! There are already a few intercultural relationships and marriages in our family and although my parents accept them they have made it clear that I can not have one…which is difficult to understand. I do understand that due to the major cultural differences intercultural relationships can be difficult and from that point of view I can see why parents would want to spare their kids those problems.

I’ll be posting my own thoughts and comments tomorrow, but a good conversation has already started between Aisha and Auroracoda, another commenter here, which I’m reposting below in the comments.

What are your middle names?
Prior to getting married my middle name was Noelle, which is a lovely and unique name. When I married Aditya I moved my short, Germanic last name into the middle name spot, dropped Noelle, and added Aditya’s nine letters long last name. NINE! I rather miss Noelle, but the tradeoff is that I now get to confuse the heck out of people when they read my nametag or work badge. Aditya doesn’t have a middle name because he’s a heathen Indian. Sometimes this causes him to cry himself to sleep at night.

How long have you been together?
We’ve been married for a little over two years, and together for five as of last Saturday. The picture above is of our honeymoon after the American wedding. We went camping on the Channel Islands off the coast of Santa Barbara in California.

How long did you know each other before you started dating?
Depending on how you define “know”, either six months or a few weeks. See (some of) the story here.

Who asked whom out?
Well now. He invited me to dinner and a movie at his place – sausage pizza, rum & coke, and Fight Club. On Valentine’s Day. At the time we were just friends, and he phrased it very sneakily so that I couldn’t be sure it was a date or not. Plus, you know, who watches Fight Club on their first date? (Aditya & I, apparently.) His strategy of date-asking is known as “plausible deniability”, and is a dastardly way of avoiding rejection when you ask someone out. And I wasn’t the first girl taken in by it, I hear…

How old are each of you?
We’re both in our mid-twenties.

Whose siblings do you see the most?
His, actually. We’re both the babies of our families – I have an older brother and he has an older brother & sister. Both of the brothers live in the Bay Area, so when we see one, we inevitably see the other. However, his sister lives in Bombay, so when we make our biennial trip to India we see her too. Good thing his siblings are cool people (and they have children we get to spoil!).

Which situation is the hardest on you as a couple?
Work-life balance, without a doubt. We’re both in the “building one’s career” stage of life, so we’re occasionally often working long hours. And then we get home, and find that, once again, the dogs failed to cook us dinner and clean the house. Fracking freeloaders.

Did you go to the same school?
We both went to the same small, liberal arts college in rural Indiana, which meant that a significant portion of our time dating was spent wandering the aisles of Super Walmart. He graduated the year before I did, and promptly fled to Silicon Valley, abandoning me among the cornfields.

Are you from the same home town?
Hahahahahaha. No.

Who is smarter?
Well… Someone in our partnership has a graduate degree, and someone doesn’t. Someone also scored a whole eighty points more on the SAT than someone else. I’m not naming any names here, but someone should be ashamed of being beaten out on the math section of the SAT by an AMERICAN GIRL. Ahem.

Who is the most sensitive?
I so totally have a higher pain threshold than Aditya. This mostly means I fall down a lot, since motor skills weren’t a high priority growing up. He whines every time he comes home from cricket practice after being hit by the ball – and he plays in a tennis ball league. (Yes, I know this is probably not what the question meant – but, c’mon, I don’t want to embarrass the poor boy too much now, do I?)

Where do you eat out most as a couple?
If by “eat out” you don’t mean “make a midnight run to Taco Bell to relive our days of youth”, the answer would probably be the sushi place down the highway. Their rainbow mountain and “she’s so hot” rolls are some of the best I’ve ever had – even Aditya’s parents liked them, despite the whole “raw fish” thing. Sidenote: every Indian I have introduced to sushi thought I was joking when I told them we’d be eating raw fish. And when I warned them about wasabi. Oh, the looks on their faces…

Where is the furthest you two have traveled together as a couple?
India. Or Indiana. It all depends on your frame of reference.

Who has the craziest exes?
This one goes to Aditya. He dated lots of girls his freshman year of college. (Insert bad joke here about American women falling for exotic foreign dudes.) While I haven’t met all of them, the statistics are completely on my side – I wasn’t nearly as active on the dating scene.

Who has the worst temper?
Eh, our tempers aren’t really comparable. He’s more of the flash fire type, while I can keep angry little embers burning in my blackened heart for quite some time.

Who does the cooking?
Me. Aditya can cook chicken, reheat pre-made food, prepare Maggie, and is the master of all things barbeque. When we don’t eat out, evenings go something like this:

Aditya, after looking through pantry and fridge: “There’s no food in the house, and I’m pretty certain it was your turn to go to the grocery store this weekend.”
Me: “Are you on crack? We could eat for a month on what’s in the fridge without even touching the emergency TastyBite rations.”
Aditya: “You’re just trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for not going to the grocery store earlier. You can’t fool me. Or the dogs. Look at the dogs staring at you – they can smell your guilt.”
Me: “They’re only paying attention because we’re in the kitchen. The kitchen which contains food. Look, I’ll show you – I’ll have an awesome stir fry done in thirty minutes.”
*30 minutes pass and dinner is served*
Me: “Wait a moment…”
Aditya: “Thanks for the delicious meal, my lovely tubelight. Took you long enough to light up on that one.”

Who is the neat-freak?
Our basement tenant. We’re pigs. Seriously.

Who is more stubborn?
I’ll admit to being this person.

Who hogs the bed?
Kajol and Panda, when they think it’s close enough to morning that they’ll be able to pretend they’re waking us up, rather than trying to steal a nap on the forbidden bed.

Who wakes up earlier?
Aditya is out of bed earlier 90% of the time, but when I need to get up super-early I have an easier time doing it than he does.

Where was your first date?
The “bum room” of Aditya’s frat, where we watched Fight Club on a couch older than either of us. Good times.

Who is more jealous?
Aditya’s fifth nickname for Kajol is “jealous cat” (cat being a pejorative term in his messed-up brain) because she always wants attention whenever Panda gets attention from me. Of course, Aditya always wants attention whenever anyone is getting attention from me.

How long did it take to get serious?
I was the first girl in college to last more than a fortnight – on the fifteenth day Aditya realized this, had a mini-crisis about the “seriousness” of our relationship, then calmed down when I smacked him on the head.

Who eats more?
Aditya has a far faster metabolism than me, so I think he ends up eating more, but he sure eats it slowly. The speed at which he eats is a running family joke.

Who does the laundry?
We both do. I separate the laundry, tell him which pile he is allowed to wash, he does those loads and I do the delicates & hand wash. I fold and he unorphans socks from our singleton box. It’s all very modern and egalitarian and shit.

Who’s better with the computer?
I am master of the interwebs with a blackbelt in googlefu, and Aditya is charge of the little things like software and hardware.

Who drives when you are together?
Adtiya, mostly, because he cares more than I do about the perfect way to zig-zag in traffic. I find this is a good rule in a relationship: the one who cares more about a little thing takes care of it.

Igniting the fear and fascination of city dwellers, a cougar recently turned up roaming around my highly metropolitan area. The cat was a fairly big dude, about 5 feet in length 150lbs, and eventually made its way into the tiny backyard of a resident who described seeing the animal roam by his window as “surreal.” When the police came they tried to contain the beast, but when it lunged at a policeman it was shot and killed. Turns out, shooting the cougar was really the only option given how ill fitted the city is for large, wild animals. The cougar could have killed someone, and there was no easy access to vets or tranquilizers to entertain any other safe idea. This is an example of an ecotone: when two different ecosystems collide and cause tension. The cougar and the city dwellers were just doing what they knew to survive, unfortunately both could not survive together.

Fortunately, I made it out of my first Indian wedding alive, and though my experience isn’t as dramatic as the poor cougar’s fate, I certainly felt out of my element. After having traveled plenty of strange places, visiting Buddhist Mongolian homes, sleeping in $3 hostels, and not to mention my general love for Indian culture, one would think I could handle any kind of situation, any kind of pressure… right? In almost any other contexts and as a seasoned, brave explorer, I think I would have found The Indian Wedding a smörgåsbord of fascination and wonder. However, let me tell you, The Indian Wedding is a much different experience when you are dating one of their own.

Hey, this is a little bit… different!

First of all, I learned that people don’t typically bring dates to Indian wedding unless they are engaged or married to them. It’s just the way it is. Of course, I learned this after the fact and wondered if I was sort of scandalous or irreverent in some way by being R’s date. As I’m sure many of you know, dating is beyond the Traditional Indian periphery, and can be acknowledged as frivolous and even sometimes disrespectful towards the community. Even so, R was bold enough to bring me and really showed a lot of bravery and respect towards our relationship in doing so. Nonetheless, my R was not used to having a “date.” That’s number one.

Number two, it is typical for the ladies and the men to sort of have separate shin-digs throughout the ceremony/reception. So it was typical when R left to go hang out with the guys for 30-45 minutes and me in the company of the Indian gals (who I hardly knew). I couldn’t really understand why he was doing this because as a “date” at weddings I was under the impression that you…hang out with your “date.” So this dynamic, more specific to Indian weddings, sort of left me scratching my head a few times when R disappeared again. I finally told him, mildly exasperated, “Hey! If you’re going to bring me to these things, you have to hang out with me!”

I think this point kind of hints at differences typical of individualist versus collectivist mindsets. At “American” weddings you and your date, fiancé, or spouse usually kind of hang out together throughout the event. There might be times when you and your date go off and talk to others, but it’s usually not for the entire evening. Even though R left on and off at the Indian Wedding/Reception, he was probably the most attentive of the Indian guys to their “dates.” Indian weddings seem to be all about the community, the culture as a whole, and not so much coupling. At the reception, R even picked up a little wandering Indian kid who he didn’t know. When the family saw, they didn’t bat an eyelash and in fact, giggled. R of course eventually brought the little guy back. From the American weddings I’ve been at, most people are pretty vigilant about sticking their kids with who they know. An American might say, “Oh it’s dangerous and unsafe to let your kids wander!” But an Indian might roll their eyes and say, “Please, there is no harm, the kid is having fun, and we all take care of each other here.” It took me a bit to wrap my more individualist prone mind around these concepts.

As far as the sari I wore, the food I ate, and the incredible ceremonial aspects of the wedding itself, I was very comfortable throughout and immensely enjoyed myself. The length of the wedding (about 3.5 hours), all the getting ready, changing outfits for the reception, and the length of the reception rituals did get a little daunting and overwhelming at times. However, I was able to roll pretty well in my typical laid-back form through all those things.

The challenge of being out of my element

The part that puzzled and sort of challenged me most about The Indian Wedding is feeling disconnected from R and experiencing him in a dramatically different way than what I have grown used to. I was able to understand some of this because I knew he was nervous to bring a “date” (his first to an Indian wedding!), anxious about a family member meeting me, and I later realized how the Indian boy/girl camps work at these things. But I wasn’t used to him being so serious, running around and fulfilling needs of The Village as they arose (and inevitably will). It’s not that I was necessarily upset about seeing R as this different, distant person I usually know so intimately and well, I just felt ruffled, perplexed, and a bit out of my element with the whole production…just like the cougar in the backyard.

I didn’t realize these things until a day or two after the wedding…I knew it felt intense, new, and very different to me but I couldn’t pinpoint why right away. Usually I roll with ease in new and challenging situations, and often thrive in them, but it felt very different, and even a little anxiety provoking, to really be on the inside of it. Apart from a few quizzical comments, I didn’t get huffy or upset with R throughout the ceremonies. I tried to let my thoughts marinate and was able to revisit these issues with him a few days later.

R said he never wants me to feel disconnected from him, but stressed there are certain protocols at Indian weddings. Interestingly, he commented that he feels out of place at “American” weddings often being the odd man out…I suppose I got somewhat of a dose of my culture’s own medicine the day of the wedding, too. R and I wonder if maybe when we live in the same city (finally after a year and a half!) and can spend lots of time together, Indian community shin-digs won’t be so intrusive on our time together. I know this was just one instance, one event but I can’t help but wonder if R will always turn into this person I don’t know at the Indian gatherings, someone whose Indianness actually feels like a barrier rather than a source of admiration and intrigue.

Compromises and needs

The way I went about working through these fears is sharing my concerns with R and making a few of my Western needs clear. First, is that eventually (maybe it won’t happen until we are “official” in his parents eyes—I’m willing to wait) he can hold my hand and put his arm around me in public—at least when we are at functions in the States. Second, like I said to him at the reception, he’s going to have to continue to try and be more of a “date” even at Indian weddings and events—even if he’s around family. And I lastly, because of our occasionally different East/West mindsets, we’re really going to have to continue to work out these sorts of ongoing differences in terms of hanging out mostly with his family and friends. Sometimes I feel a little scared about it, like the misplaced cougar delving deep into something she doesn’t know, but when I think about what I have with R, and how receptive he is to my concerns, the risks really do seem worth it.

Take home lesson: Learn the framework—fight the urge to judge, get upset and say fiery things. If you’re new to Indian culture it’s going to take a while to learn the structure of ceremonies and the roles that are expected of people. Fight to take these things personally. Ask your partner to explain things, like Dr. Evil says, “Need the info!” After you have the info and understand the frameworks as they are (without judging them—cause you sure aint gonna change ‘em!), think about how you can fit into it in a way that is satisfactory to you. So think about your needs, think about what you can sacrifice and what you simply cannot. Communicate these things to your partner . . . and well . . . keep plugging along. You’re not alone.

“You are too prejudiced. You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Do you not think that there are things which you cannot understand, and yet which are? That some people see things that others cannot? … There are always mysteries in life.” – Abraham Van Helsing, metaphysician and scientist from Bram Stoker’s Dracula

I knew my Indian boyfriend was pretty down with his culture, but after meeting his brother-in-law I just looked at R amusedly and said, “Wow. He’s sooo Indian.” R knew exactly what I meant, smiled and said, “Oh, he totally is. You should see him in India. He’s absolutely in his element.”

Later I will unpack this exchange for Gori Girl readers. But first, some background. I’m a white American woman and my R is from a very traditional, South Indian (Telugu) family. Of the Indian families I have had the pleasure of knowing, I feel at liberty to say R’s is the “most hardcore” (i.e. traditional) I’ve known. For example, out of his 200 family members, only one ventured outside of Telugu culture to marry…a Gujarati. R’s little niece and nephew speak Telugu. His mom, pop, sister, brother-in-law, and their kids have often lived in the same house, sharing family responsibilities (which is very common for more traditional families). It has worked well for them.

After spending his first year of life in India, R would travel back almost every year for weeks, sometimes months, as a kid. As an adult he makes it to India at least once every 2-3 years. He has vivid memories of falling violently ill with Hepatitis A as a kid, has witnessed what can be the stifling effects of “the Indian mob”, and struggles to reconcile with the fact that his family members back home do not have the same opportunities he has in America. On a lighter note, he’s suffered through more painful Telugu movies than he can count. He’s also shared a meal with 4,000 people on his sister’s wedding day and considers Indian celebrations to be some of the most festive and vibrant in the world. He’s taken his non-Indian friends to India and enthusiastically introduced them to a whole new world. In India, R gets to hang out and nibble on the best food on the planet (ok, my bias), all day long. And though it’s hard to describe, he slips into an overall slower, more contemplative and thoughtful pace when he’s there. Over the years he has experienced India at its worst and at its best.

Despite all this, R’s more traditional cousins still say he has always “been a little different”. R also really appreciates the United States for the education he has received, the foods from all over the world found here, American music from all nooks and crannies, and well… if I talk about his Marvel comic book fetish he might kill me. Despite all I have listed about his experiences with India and the United States, I’m not sure I have pinpointed what makes him Indian as well as American quite yet.

R’s brother-in-law

AB, R’s brother-in-law, got married the traditional, arranged way. He lives with R’s family, is Hindu, and has of one of the more “typical” Indian professions. Perhaps some of these things somehow affect his “Oh so Indianness” as I initially described. But then again… not exactly. I knew that he did the arranged marriage, did the joint-family stuff before I met him. It might sound funny, but it only occurred to me to state “He’s soooo Indian” after having a drink and conversation with him.

This will be hard to do… but I’m going to try to describe what I think a small part of being Indian is all about. AB has a really chill yet solid way about him. The way he sits, even crosses his legs, puts his hand on his chin, and sort of looks, listens and doesn’t get frazzled about anything at all reminds me so much of my friends in India. It feels very grounding and comforting to be around these sorts of people. AB is someone who seems to really have assumed his traditional (dharmic) role that his family expected of him. However, he doesn’t strike me as a man who has apathy for his choices or a lack of personal agency.

An American may ask, “How do you just marry someone you don’t know? How do you live under your in-laws roof and rules? How do you just sacrifice everything you may want for the wishes (of what seems to be) everyone else? Why don’t you grow a pair and do what you want for yourself?” To this, AB might just shrug, smile a bit wryly, and proceed to look right through the inquisitive American. To AB these questions are not a part of the traditional Indian worldview. They are not a part of his worldview.

Perhaps at some point AB did entertain more individualist notions? Sometimes I think Americans find comfort in this notion, but I get that vibe that he is truly content with his life. He is someone who strikes me as exceptionally kind, and exudes an unyielding understanding for those who don’t even see the way he does. With a serene, uncanny, yet humble confidence he sort of communicates: “it is what it is and I unequivocally accept life in this way.” I mean, how many Americans can say that?

Most of the traditional, conservative Americans I know tend to be pretty set in a certain type of script—much like AB, as he is more conservative and traditional in his respective culture. However, the distinct difference I have noted in someone like AB is his ability to listen, absorb alternatives, and accept difference without judgment. Even AB’s mother-in-law (R’s mom) who is an ultra conservative Indian has said she has no personal problem with American culture, it’s just that she has a really hard time understanding and wrapping her mind around it given where she has come from. In my experience, I have met very few (if any) highly conservative, traditional Americans who exhibit the same Indian-cool in expressing their views and living their values.

I should also note that AB has an absolutely gorgeous, understanding, regal (and yes, oh so Indian) wife, the most adorable, good-natured kids you’ve even met, and very supportive in-laws. Following the traditions laid out centuries before his time worked very well for him.

Back to R

R is a lot like AB in terms of Indianness… but not completely. I think what makes R a “little different,” as his cousins say, is that he has lived most of his life in the U.S. However, many NRIs (non-resident Indians) still choose to go the traditional route just like AB did. I think somehow, for most of R’s life, he has had a little American pilot light on. He was always curious: he wanted to try dating, perhaps imagined more of a nuclear style family, wanted to further explore his quirky, off-beat tastes, and for lack of a better term, was intrigued with parts of an American, “individualist” lifestyle. But R never really felt he had a true opportunity to do these things given what he was raised to believe, what he saw directly modeled around him, and perhaps given the dharmic ideas his parents thought (and he sometimes thought) he had to follow. Unlike AB, following all the Indian ways never really resulted in happiness or contentment for R.

R tried the traditional route with a few arranged engagements, but it didn’t work for him. He also tried doing things the “American” way as well. R dated “Western style” for a while, but no one he met really inspired him to pursue anything more serious. So, because he hadn’t found anyone special through dating, he saw no need to disrupt his incredibly important and dear family life with such information.

Me and R, R and me

As R and I grew in our relationship, and partly because of my patience and understanding of his Indianness, he felt confident I was someone he could take that huge leap, that huge risk with his parents for. As he grew to trust me more and more, he knew he had a safety net, a support system, and someone who would unconditionally love him if he further explored the uncharted, sometimes uncertain territories intrinsic to the dating/American relationship process. This was also a process his parents and family would have a hard time understanding. However, as R finally found someone worth pursuing, he decided to take that risk and let his parents know he was dating someone non-Indian and more importantly, someone who made him truly happy.

Another one of the main reasons R was willing to take a risk, a leap with me, is that he knew I got it.Before knowing him I had traveled India for a month, had many Indian friends, went crazy about the food, and had an overall, general fascination with Indian culture. However, these things are not why I get it – instead:

• I get it because I am genuinely open to difference, exploring it, and am not quick to judge.
• I get it because I am willing to be patient and understanding of his family’s process of accepting me.
• I get it because I realize my culture doesn’t hold all the answers and am curious about what others may have to teach me.

R knew he wouldn’t have to totally become an individualist, an American in all ways to be with me—he knew he could be both Indian and American. I think R’s choice to be with someone like me is yet another example of his Indianness.

Now, before I get too far ahead of myself, I want to make clear that R has not and will not abandon the ways in which he is “Oh so Indian” as we progress in our relationship. AB and R’s Indianness has sure turned my American thinking upside down… and it has been an amazing ride. I expect to learn more and keep incorporating this Indianness into our lives. A lot of what attracted me to R in the first place was his calm, his humility, unbelievable work ethic, and uncanny acceptance of life the way it is. I mean, perhaps I could have found all these things in a white guy—but I never did. I have, however, felt overwhelmed with this strange and wonderful vibe that many of my Indian friends seem to give off.

One of my great friends of a decade, J, was born in India and moved to the States when he was a toddler. Though he has a pretty traditional family, he chooses to embrace individualism and American life in all ways. He dates, is still close with his family, loves basketball, but to be frank, is basically just like a nice white dude at heart. You could put the guy in a dhoti, shove curry down his throat, and blare Hindi music around him and he’s still be that coconut down the street (brown on the outside, white on the inside). So obviously, Indianness isn’t all about that stuff. J chuckles when I light-heartedly call him a coconut and razz him for not being more “Indian.” He knows I’m right! He says I am more Indian than him! Though I love J as a friend, I’ve never had a spark for him beyond his handsome brown skin. I guess I just prefer that hard to pinpoint Indianness far too much—so sue me.

Truth is, I’m not sure if I could ever be with anyone who’s 100% “Soooo Indian” either. I don’t fully get it—the worldview, the mindset—and I doubt I ever truly can. I do have a deep appreciation for it though. At the same time, I have found myself a little bored when dating on the other end of the spectrum: more typical, American men. What can I say: I do love a little difference, a little flava, and a little spark in my life. I suppose this can come in many forms, from people of all different places, but all I know is that I’m glad I found all these things in R.

Though R and I continually have things to work out considering the cultural divide, his traditional family, and parts of his Indianness I simply don’t (or won’t ever probably) get, we both feel we have a darn good shot at happiness given our goals, desires, and how well we fit together. I’m not saying things won’t get tough and difficult for me to understand, in fact I think they will, but I’ll be darned if I’m going into this with a dark and unhopeful attitude. Do you not think that there are things which you cannot understand, and yet which are? At the very least, R is a guy worth all my hopes, dreams, and risks in moving forward.

And lastly, I’d like to confess that by no means am I an expert on what Indianness is. All I really have to go on are my many impressions and hunches. It’s a tough thing, if not an impossible thing, especially for me – a Westerner – to define. Like so many wonderful and inexplicable things in life, I can’t always articulate what it is but I know it when I see it, when I feel it, and when I experience it. When I came back from a month in India, I felt an aching sadness that I had never felt before. India perplexed me as I felt I had loved, loathed, and then longed for it again, all at once. When someone asked me what I missed most about the place, the first thing I said was, “I miss the way people listen to you there.” I didn’t quite know how or why I had felt so heard there but I knew it was much different than anything I had experienced before. Much like my experience in the country, Indianness, I think, is many things: the tension of opposites, an ineffable mystery, and always, always, entirely moving.