An excellent short documentary on interracial couples by Tim Tsai featuring four different intercultural marriages in the US.
I was most struck by the first third of the documentary, which focused on the (negative) attitudes that the couples have experienced by being in an interracial marriage. My personal experience has been quite different from that of the couples’ in the film. I have had very few negative encounters regarding my relationship with Aditya. I have cared about very few of the negative encounters I’ve had regarding my relationship with Aditya.
This might be partially because of geography – the couples in the documentary are from Central Texas, I believe, while Aditya and I have spent the majority of our time as a couple living in Silicon Valley, metro D.C., and on a small college campus (albeit in rural Indiana). We simply haven’t had that many encounters where it seemed like people were negatively judging us because we were dating “across the races”.
I think it is also partially because, to a large extent, I just don’t notice or care about other’s reactions to me unless they get in my face about it. I had a discussion regarding this a couple of weeks ago on a post at Gori Wife’s blog. She was writing about how she and her Pakistani husband get stared at all the time when they go out together, especially by other South Asians. I commented that I never notice stares when my husband & I are running around town together – and it turns out that Aditya & I live only a mile away from the mall where Gori Wife gets stared at! (This may be the final proof that Aditya needs to prove that I am socially incompetent & oblivious.)
Reflecting on this, I’ve come to wonder how much awareness is a good thing when it comes to the social tensions that intercultural relationships often bring up. Generally my stance on intercultural issues is that more thought and awareness is better. If you don’t know about a problem, you can’t fix it or be ready for complications arising from it. Yet I don’t think my obliviousness to getting stared at by strangers (if it does, in fact, occur) has been a bad thing. I can’t imagine any negative consequences – only positive things like less stress and annoyance. Now I’m wondering – should I be caring more? Should I notice more?
Anyways, the rest of the documentary is quite interesting, and it slowly becomes more upbeat. The middle portion has a few excellent notes from Dr. Rebecca Bigler of the Gender and Racial Attitudes Lab at U of T on the race perceptions of young children and how media affects our attitudes on the matter. The documentary concludes with the couples telling of how they met – it’s beautiful to see how varied and filled with love the relationships are.
16. February 2009 at 6:04 pm
We get stared at in public a lot, too, but not as much as in Korea. Most of the times the lookers have little grins on their faces. <shrug>
I've had a few annoying incidents where I've said something about “my fiance” to someone else (in a store, or restaurant or something) and they look around at every one except Good Man, even while he's walking toward us or even if he's the only one standing there.
And we live in your area…
16. February 2009 at 7:47 pm
This is something I'm not sure of myself. Definitely, when we aren't comfortable ourselves in an area we notice it more. There are some areas that just creep Satya out-stopping for gas in some gas stations in rural PA gives him the creeps sometimes and he feels vaguely threatened. Or for me, once we went to the temple and it was so crowded we shared a bench in the cafeteria with two old men. The rest of their family was seated ahead of us and this one old lady kept turning around to stare at us throughout our meal. I thought she was looking at us with disapproval. Satya thought she was staring because she was curious and wanted to talk. He thought they were kept at home during the week and going to the temple was the only time they got to leave the house and see others. Unfortunately, we never found out which of us is right. Last week we for some reason went to Atlantic City and went to a casino. I'd never been and the atmosphere just creeped me out-weird lighting, weird music, lots of security types standing around. We both felt like people were staring at us a lot there.
So I really don't know. Were they staring or did we just feel out of place and self conscious?
17. February 2009 at 6:45 am
Yes, at this point I don't think it's a matter of getting stared at or not – because I suspect we do get it – but whether our obliviousness to it is a good or bad thing. I say “our” because I spoke with Aditya last night and he says he doesn't notice it either, although he agrees we must get our fair share of looks.
17. February 2009 at 6:50 am
That's a very good point about feeling uncomfortable in some places! Perhaps I don't challenge myself to go to places where I feel out of place enough… It's a very odd thing, though, as I'm typically pretty self-conscious about being noticed – I'm the type of person who starts blushing in sympathy for the guy in the movie when he commits a blunder!
Do you notice getting stared at in “regular” places like the grocery store or around town? And does it bug you then, or only when you're already feeling uncomfortable?
17. February 2009 at 12:19 pm
Perhaps the obliviousness sort of detracts onlookers?
My Bf and I don't notice getting stared at a lot. We go to many diverse areas of town, and even visit more dominantly Desi areas of town, as well. Still, we don't get looked at much (actually we don't spend time looking at others)! But there was this one restaurant he wanted to take me to for the Nehari where the owners are Muslim and the crowd is pretty much only Pakistani and Muslim. I noticed a few glances there, but nothing pronounced or what I would consider rude, maybe just a healthy curiousness? I was certainly feeling curious to be there! Honestly my bf was acting a little goofy like he was slightly self-conscious about being there with me. He mentioned there that the folks next to us kept staring at our couplehood. I really didn't notice them though.
Last night I brought this memory up and my bf admitted on his own that he thinks HE was self-conscious. I find this interesting because he and I are ordinarily so much in our own bubble of happiness and don't really care about anything else or dwell on anything to affect us much. However, get him around the mostly Pakistani/Muslim crowd and he is a little sensitive? I need to get him out to more of these particular places to scope out the situation
Aside from caring about how my BF feels, the owner of the restaurant was so very kind to us and I care more about that than what the other customers think.
17. February 2009 at 12:31 pm
Thanks for the link
I've been thinking about this, and the only thing I came up with is perhaps that when I see desi aunties and uncles staring at me, I see disapproving looks and I want to scream “We've been married for five years! His parents know all about me and they LOOOOOVVVVEEE MEEEEEE!!!!” I think it has to do with your reception in the desi community. For me, people talked about me behind my back, M's roommate broke their lease and their friendship, everyone in his life – even people who I thought were my friends, too – told him no to marry me, that I wasn't good enough. I am all too familiar with disapproving looks. So I notice, and I still care. in the beginning, it was probably much more harmful that beneficial. I've come to terms with a lot of it, and traveling to Pakistan always helps, too. (I get a lot of stares there that are clearly curious or interested, rather than disapproving.)
I suspect that you don't have the same reaction because your introduction to desi culture was totally different than that. It seems Aditya made it clear from the beginning that his parents might have a non-desi daughter-in-law one day. He probably didn't have such closed-minded, playboy friends to advise him that American girls, while useful for many things, were not to be married. Any disapproval your relationship met seems to have been delivered in a kind, caring way, and was able to be resolved. Not everything was resolved for us very easily. Sometimes the resolution was that we would no longer tolerate the kind of vitriol being spouted against us. M lost friends. LOTS of people refused to come to our wedding.
These days, I still care about the stares because I feel my appearance in the world helps the Gori Wife cause. I want to make eye contact with those aunties and uncles and smile, maybe say Salaam. Hopefully the next time they hear about someone's son or daughter marrying a non-desi, they'll think maybe it's not all bad. I watched to documentary, and I really liked it. i just can't imagine the children of the Lovings, maybe some of the first openly mixed race children in Virginia, didn't care about the stares they got. It is on their shoulders that we modern mixed-race or mixed-culture couples stand today.
17. February 2009 at 10:10 pm
Hi gorigirl,
how do you do this in your blog ….how was the first sentence struck out ..what editing managed that???
“I have had very few negative encounters regarding my relationship with Aditya. I have cared about very few of the negative encounters I’ve had regarding my relationship with Aditya.”
Thanks!
18. February 2009 at 5:25 am
Rereading the original post and just sort of rambling here…
I think most of the responses we get aren't exactly negative. Even the negative incidents are sort of…confused, ignorant responses. Looking around at every white guy in the store and ignoring the Asian guy in front of me is a negative experience, but I think it comes from an ignorant place, not a hateful place.
We haven't had any TRULY negative, hateful things happen in America, that I can remember. A few happened in Korea–the one I remember is some old man yelling at us for holding hands in public. Good Man–being the horrible Korean that he is–told the man not to look if he didn't like it. But I think there was an age thing coming into play there, too, since older Koreans would NEVER be seen holding hands in public. Ah, actually, a cop yelled at Good Man and asked if he spoke English at the Inauguration, but that's not relationship based racism, that's just good old racism.
There have been a few times in Korea and America when we've started to get disapproving looks from other Koreans, but then they hear me speaking Korean and suddenly I'm “in” and they want to know how we met, where I learned Korean, etc.
As a side note–I think that our genders make a difference, too. I've talked to other white/Korean couples and single Korean women about this, too. If the woman is Korean, it's often assumed that the white guy with her is her boyfriend, even when he's not. If the man is Korean, it's often assumed that the white woman is a language tutor.
It's interesting how age, gender, and other things (language ability, dress, class) come into play while someone is being judged.
As for obliviousness being good or bad… I think it's good to notice when people notice us, if only because it reminds me that most Americans AREN'T in cross-racial/cultural relationships. I tend to get into my little bubble and forget about that.
18. February 2009 at 9:35 am
I don't notice stares, either. IMO, staring is pretty harmless. You wanna look? Then look. No skin off my back.
Thankfully, no one has ever approached us (negatively or positively) about our relationship. That would be annoying, and would probably make me more aware of strangers' reactions.
18. February 2009 at 6:33 pm
Hmm. I think for us we notice it more when we are out of our routine like Atlantic City. Also, we notice when either of us is in an environment where we feel out of place or like everyone knows what to do and we don't. Satya for example, feels that he gets lots of stares when he goes to church with me. When I am comfortable in the church, I don't notice it much (but perhaps because he is getting the looks and not me). I notice it when I'm uncomfortable or in a new environment.
In thinking this through, I notice the looks when I am uncomfortable already and yes, the stares (or perceived stares) do make me more uncomfortable.
19. February 2009 at 1:11 pm
Hmmm – what nationality/religion is your boyfriend? Is he a Pakistani Muslim?
The one time I can remember Aditya himself being weird about our relationship (in my eyes) was when we were in a Muslim Bangladeshi grocery store about a year ago, and I poked him on the shoulder to get his attention. He was very much not okay with me touching him in that situation – and upon reflection, I realize that from the decor of the place the owners were probably very conservative Muslims.
19. February 2009 at 1:20 pm
Ru, I used text formatting tags to get that “crossed out” effect, specifically the <xmp><del></xmp> html code. All blogging software that I know of uses this code to format text, links, and the like – you've probably been using it without knowing it. The link above has a good list of the different codes you can use on a blog or in the comments section of most blogs.
19. February 2009 at 4:24 pm
The most interesting thing that I’ve found since being in my own intercultural relationship is the amount of positive support and encouragement I’ve received from the most unexpected quarters. Granted, we are living (presently) in southern CA where things like this are more common, but we have traveled together extensively and the most I’ve noticed are the stares. I’ve always taken them more of the kinds of stares you yourself would use when seeing something new and interesting, rather than being stares of hostility. People seem genuinely happy for us and with us as a couple. Of course, we have not yet traveled to India together; however, I have been there previously and always felt at home and accepted, even when traveling with my male friends.
So my question would be whether this type of situation is a conglomerate of many different factors. The people and the places involved along with the exposure and educational level all have a factor to play.
When studying psychology and cultural anthropology, my professors further expounded this with their own theory’s of individuality and a person’s own perceptions. An example would be that I walk around not seeing any difference in anyone and expect pretty much the same behavior from other people (or rather, I just don’t think about it too much). I smile and laugh and talk with anyone and everyone and generally just try to let the other person know that I see them as a person and a part of my “world wide” family and network of friends. In retrospect, I now know that I was treated in the same manner that I treated the other person.
One particular memory comes to mind. There is an older Indian couple living in my apartment complex. Every evening (from what I can tell) they go for a walk together. I hardly ever heard them talk and can’t recollect seeing them smile. I always saw them from afar so never had the opportunity to say anything to them. One evening, while B and I were outside and just enjoying the evening sky, the elderly couple happened to walk right beside us. I made sure to catch their eye, I smiled and nodded and said Namaste to them just as sweetly as I would any elder (being raised in the south, you learned to turn the charm on for your elders and leave it on). They both smiled so beautifully, nodded to both B and I and kept looking back and nodding happily to us.
Perhaps it’s not always that the other people are viewing us a certain negative way but that we are hyper sensitive to the nature of our relationship and depending how we feel about it (or how frustrating our inner core of support might be making the relationship for us). In a sense, perhaps in some ways we are projecting our own thoughts (or the comments of a few negative people) onto anyone who we might catch staring.
22. February 2009 at 12:28 pm
“Perhaps it’s not always that the other people are viewing us a certain negative way but that we are hyper sensitive to the nature of our relationship and depending how we feel about it (or how frustrating our inner core of support might be making the relationship for us). In a sense, perhaps in some ways we are projecting our own thoughts (or the comments of a few negative people) onto anyone who we might catch staring.”
Well said.
23. February 2009 at 11:30 am
Thank you so much!
Another thing that I had thought about after writing this comment, was that we also have to take into account the other persons perceptions and history. Perhaps they have met with some sort of negative action in the past and are therefore leery or expecting it again. I think that it's up to each of us (as individuals) to help others and ourselves, to change outlooks or misconceptions. Assuming what another person is thinking is disastrous to any kind of change and growth for society. Perhaps, thinking the positive first and acting on a positive thought, will help influence the people around us and cause a chain reaction. The best way I can describe this rule of thought was a series of commercials from Liberty Mutual. I'm at work so can't find the actual link….but I know the title of the commercial was “Liberty Mutual Ad (1st edition): “Half Acre”"
Thanks again for the compliment! Have a great day!
27. February 2009 at 11:38 am
I also experienced being celebrity-like or being stared by many people when my Caucasian bf came to pay me a visit. I didn't like the feeling and feel so conscious at all times being all-eyes on us. I just hoped they were thinking positive about me and my bf.
2. March 2009 at 12:47 pm
I'm not sure if it's your social incompetence or obliviousness, but regardless, I wholeheartedly wish I could take things in stride as much as you do!! Pardon me for not remembering this…but Aditya is Bengali right? From what I recall, I think there was someone in this family who was in an intercultural relationship before you right? Overall I read that things were (especially are now) pretty OK with you and Aditya's family. I'm not minimizing your strength in any way (like I said I wish I could be like that) but what makes me so sensitive is the particular beliefs/people in his family. In my case, their lack of expression or acknowledgment when you try and put a little forth has been the hardest thing–not so much outsiders' reactions. You can easily write off those people reactions as bogus and ignorant. But when it comes from the family you are supposed to get along with your whole life, if opens up an entirely new dimension. When it's people close to you…or people who may even LIVE WITH YOU who can't throw you a bone here and there, it's the toughest, I think. Any tips on how to handle that? I was thinking of writing a post, “Is Accepting not Being Accepted Acceptable?”
2. March 2009 at 1:01 pm
Aditya's brother married an Indian who's not Bengali, but that's the closest
anyone in his (extended) family has gotten to an intercultural marriage.
(… more later)
2. March 2009 at 1:03 pm
Aditya's brother married an Indian who's not Bengali, but that's the closest
anyone in his (extended) family has gotten to an intercultural marriage.
(… more later)
2. March 2009 at 9:27 pm
Another excellent point.
Here's the link to the (rather uplifting) commercial, if anyone is interested.
(I do love good ads, especially the uplifting or funny ones. This has nothing to do with anything, but this greatly reminded me of this ad. Sorry for the randomness, y'all.)
2. March 2009 at 9:31 pm
Things now are quite okay, but they weren't always, especially when we were dating. Aditya's dad was always fine with us dating, but his mom was rather uncertain about the whole thing. I wasn't facing the same situation you are, but I can remember how very uncomfortable it was.
I'll think about tips…
3. March 2009 at 1:25 am
I'm new to your blog and like this post and comments because I'm in an interesting cross-cultural marriage myself. I'm a white American. I wish I could have found blogs like this when my hubby and I first met. We've been together 11+ years. I'll call my husband “V” for this post. Anyway, V was brought up in Pakistan, but his family are Hindus and originally from India (very unusual I realize). So I can relate to both your blog and some of GoriWife's too.
Anyway, V and I definitely have different circles of friends and I feel that it's easier just to adapt to different situations so I don't end up feeling uncomfortable. I don't want to embarrass my husband or make others feel uncomfortable as well.
I know I'm going a little off topic here, but . . .
For me I think the stares come more when I feel I'm not dressed “appropriately” for the surrounding environment rather than the fact that V and I are together (I know that may sound superficial). If I know we are meeting some of his Pakistani/Muslim friends who are more conservative I'll wear shalwar-kameez to their house. I feel more comfortable if I do in that situation.
There have been occasions where I have worn shalwar-kameez into a grocery store, mall or other places and I tend to feel like people are staring even though they might not really care. Although I'm sure people look, even if it's just out of curiosity. If my in-laws are with me, or V is with me, I usually don't mind, (although I still prefer to wearing typical American clothes, and usually do). It's the times when I just go to pick up something alone and I'm dressed in typical Indian or Pakistani dress that really make me feel self conscious.
If we go to the Mandir (Hindu temple) here I also prefer wearing either a sari or kameez (long shirt) or long skirt of some kind. I don't know, I guess it's just a respect thing in my mind now too.
I have been to Pakistan a number of times and I have found that in public markets people will stare at V and I (I agree with GoriWife here too, I think it's more out of being curious than anything). I am taller than most women there and at the times I went I had blonde highlights in my hair. I would always cover my head in public with my dupatta (scarf that is part of shalwar-kameez) so as not to draw more attention to myself.
3. March 2009 at 1:27 pm
Welcome to the blog, Jijibean!
I certainly agree with your point regarding clothing – it's one of the major things that help you blend into different social situations. I mostly wore salwars when I was in India for that reason, and was occasionally mistaken as Indian – it helps that I'm short & a brunette.
3. March 2009 at 8:58 pm
I think what you wrote here and a little bit above is exactly what I was trying to say – you just put it better
4. March 2009 at 9:39 pm
I once had a conversation with a Pakistani fellow who told me his friends would lie to American girls and tell them they're from India, use them and dump them. This way they got to have their fun and give Indians a bad name at the same time.
5. March 2009 at 6:09 am
Come on now, I don't think Pakistanis needs to be blamed for that. That are plenty of men (and women) from all over the world (including from India) who do that. Desi men certainly don't have the sole rights to being a jerk.
5. March 2009 at 11:07 am
Yes, K is a Pakistani Muslim (and I'm a white American woman).
At the restaurant we never once touched each other but we were on the same side of a very large booth with no one on the other side. (We got into that habit after going to restaurants where there is a TV and we sit together to see it.) I'm guessing that was a big no-no perhaps in some people's eyes? We weren't loud, laughing or flirting in any way (nor are we ever like that in public). We were relatively quiet throughout the meal. Nothing we would consider as an inappropriate display of affection. K said he did hesitate before sitting next to me. However, we don't want to feel guilty about the way we do things no matter where we are. That does not mean we do not have respect for others around us or do not want to blend in. We should be able to feel comfortable anywhere we go just being us. And we are…That was the first time we had ever gone to such a place together. And like I said, the owner was very kind to us, and I think we'll go back.
5. March 2009 at 11:34 am
Wonderful post, Auroracoda! You definitely captured what I feel and how I see it, in the way you articulately described theory of individuality and person's own perceptions playing largely into the spirit of a moment when two cultures interact. K and I are in a bubble of happiness and that's how we treat those around us, which is how (I truly believe) we haven't really met with vile opposition from anyone close in our lives or random people out and about. Of course it helps that both of our families have this outlook on life as well.
5. March 2009 at 3:15 pm
What? I'm just stating what someone told me. Yes, I'm probably biased being an Indian American but that plays no part in this. This guy, who was a Pakistani, told me his buddies would lie to girls and tell them they were Indian, sleep with them and dump them. You're right though, there are jerks in every race, religion and ethnicity.
15. April 2009 at 8:11 am
I actually had an experience with a Pakistani Man. It was very hurtful as I have never been 'Casual' with my affections. He used me unmercifully. Had me thinking that I was 'with' him as our relationship had been 'very intimate'. He used to have me sing for his friends ( I was a Vocal Performance major). Little did I know that I was on display in the most degrading fashion. Then one day he went to Chicago. When I called him he sounded very strange and cut me off. I didn't see him for another week. When he came back he started telling me that he was getting married. I was naive enough to think that he was getting ready to propose. Then he whipped out a photo album, showed me pictures of his newly arranged fiance, and asked me to sing at their wedding. It was a very strange mix of fury, dumbfoundedness, and profound pain. I later found out that there was a few of us that he was stringing along. Jokes on him though. I met my wonderful INDIAN husband at his apartment. About a year after I got married he called me to complain that his wife was cold to him and would not 'show him any love' unless they were trying for children. So, I can concur with the Pakistani bad rap.
15. April 2009 at 1:58 pm
That's horrid =( sorry to hear that you had such an experience. I'm a Pakistani girl and I'm glad that the men in my family have had a lot more respect for people that they've dated outside their race. Many of them are in happy interfaith, interracial relationships. I would be very concerned if a man (Pakistani or not) was way too pushy on getting intimate with me way too early. That usually is a red flag. Especially if he wants to do things with you that you would normally object to. A lot of them don't have good intentions and get into a relationship just so that they can sleep around. I'm sorry to hear that it has tainted your experience with Pakistani men, but there are certainly good ones out there as well. It just depends on the personal morals they've been endowed with.
16. April 2009 at 9:05 am
Thank you. I appreciate your comment. I apologize though. When I reread my comment, it still sounds so bitter. I guess the comment I responded to just gave me a type of validation and new perspective on what I experienced. I did get married to a wonderful man, who happens to be from India. He is kind, loving, attentive, supportive, accepting, and faithful. I even have a good relationship with his parents so far. Everything happens for a reason and I thank my lucky stars everyday that the potential trainwreck of a marriage that I thought I wanted never was. I also think of his wife sometimes. I dodged the bullet, but she certainly did not. I have no doubt that there are millions of wonderful Pakistani men out there. I have just not had the pleasure to meet them. I am sure that your brothers are very nice people and they should not be held accountable to the dastardly deeds of the minority that has created this infamous stereotype.
10. September 2009 at 9:12 pm
haha I got a taste of these stares in Midwest as well, I used to go out with my white friend, whos white and im ur typical desi brown. The desis would all stare at us, thinking the white girl is all out to corrupt this poor Indian boy in a land far away from his parents! lol I used to get a funny kick outta it lol