A new reader to the blog, jbf, recently posted her personal story as a detailed comment in the post Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship. Jbf’s problem, however, is a bit different from the one highlighted in that post, so, with her permission, I’m hoisting her comment up into a post of its own, along with the comments from others that followed her original one. I’m sure she’d appreciate any further advice or suggestions you guys have. My own advice will be coming in the comments in a couple of hours. Of course, I’m not sure if I can do any better than what’s been said so far – I’m very impressed with the level of thoughtful dialogue occuring here!
Jbf’s story & problems:
I’m not sure if it is too late to comment on this, but I just came across it while searching for comfort in my situation. My friends and family have given me their support, but in matters of intolerance I do not know if they can offer anything more. I (a 25 yo white American girl) have been dating an Indian guy (born in America to Punjabi parents who moved here 2 years prior) for two years. I will call him B. We both hold graduate degrees and have careers. We met while in graduate school through mutual friends. We lived in different cities but found out that our parents lived only 15 minutes from each other. We quickly became close and decided to start a relationship despite the distance. I met his family very early on. They were receptive and welcomed me into their home. I even spent the night on multiple occasions. When he would come visit me he would bring small gifts from his mother, candles, potpourri, etc. I spent Christmas with his immediate family the last two years (I have not met extended family beyond cousins as dating is not a part of Indian culture). He graduated and started a job about a year ago. Within a few months of this we decided that when I graduated in a year I would find a job where he was and that we would move in together with the intent of being engaged within a year. Although untraditional it was important to both of us to be together in the same place before making such a commitment.
At this time (this past Christmas) while making the decision we wanted to include our families. His mom said that she would support us if we had a traditional Sikh wedding and that i always put family first. She stressed that she wanted a daughter and not just a daughter-in-law. She said she spoke to a few people in her family and that they were educated and would support us as long as my home was always open to them. She said this rather harshly, but it was still acceptance, however I knew it would never be the same as if I were brown. His mother has met my mother and sat in my parent’s house and spoke highly of me and told my mom she would want me as a daughter. B and I went over everything we could think of, what a wedding would mean, how we would raise children, expectation from each others families, holidays, etc. He spoke privately to 3 of his cousins and his mom to ask for their support. Everyone said it would be hard, that he should consider his own culture (as he has only dated white women), but that if this is what he wanted they would support him.
B is proud of his culture but does not want to give his children traditional names or go to temple with them. He and I agree with how we would want to start and raise a family. We are not religious people, he is an Atheist and his family has known this long before he and i ever met. B and I have similar morals and life goals. I have made an effort to learn names of people and food in Punjabi. He is not fluent himself. To put it into perspective, his cousins tease him that he is white. I took what his mother said very seriously and am ok with meeting her requests. She has even bought me a sari while in India.
I have accepted a job and moved in with B. It has been one month but we have quickly realized that we made a good choice and that we are happy together (more so than I would have imagined). For the last two months his mom has turned on he and i. She is condescending to me and cold to B. For example he and I were going to friend wedding and upon seeing my black conservative dress, she commented “oh yeah, you guys wear black to weddings” she then turned away from me and did not hug me when we left . She recently went to a white/Punjabi wedding and according to her other son has been very upset since. Last week B was in his parents town on a business trip and saw them for dinner. His mother gave him a letter and would not speak to him. The short page long letter said she has always been there for him and worked hard to raise him. That he owed her something, a marriage to a woman from his own culture and if he did anything other than that she would not be able to support him any longer. After additional dialogue it came out that she will not speak to or see anyone in my family again, that she will not be open to me, and that she will never forgive or open up to my boyfriend again. She says that her family sides with her as well. B’s father considers himself Switzerland and will not speak against our relationship or for it (he is a very passive man, but that is another story). My boyfriend’s only brother says he understands why we may continue our relationship but says that he would put family first and that B should consider it seriously himself. The only thing “wrong” with me is my race.
She has always been manipulative of B. Saying things like “oh you aren’t flying in to visit me this weekend because you don’t love me.” I do understand where she comes from (as best I can). She has an arranged marriage and although not abusive, still not good. Her own mother-in-law and her do not have a relationship. I do not understand how a mother can do this to her son. His whole life he was taught that as long as he was with someone who loved and respected him that he was doing the right thing. In high school he went to school dances with white girls and his mother cried and locked her self in her room for weeks. In college, she apologized and told B she was wrong. But now she calls B sleazy for living with me and is asking him to change his life. I understand “the ripple effect.” A mixed marriage does mean that people in the community will shun B’s parents. It makes me very sad. What hurts me is that she changed her own views. I have nothing else in my new town. I have a year commitment to my company. I am shaken to the core by this. What else is she capable of? There is no happy ending.
The romantic movie ending of the boy choosing his love is not so. On our wedding day his mother and family would not be present and there would not be a chance of a future relationship. My own parents are very sad by this and have offered their support to B and I. My dad’s parents were immigrants from the Ukraine and while they have never treated my American mom the same as the rest of the Ukrainian family, they were still present for my dad’s major life events.
B and I have more talking to work through. He does not know what to do, nor do i. He knows that staying together would be good for us, but he also knows this would offer a lifetime of grief to his mother/family and no one accepting me (which I could endure I think, but I also think I could have a breaking point depending on how his family actually treats me to my face). If it were just the two of us a discussion is not even needed, we would be together. But family is a part of life and marriage.
I should tie this back to the original post, and I suppose I just want to say be prepared for the worst, but that it is an exercise to know how you both really feel. The exercise of learning about each others cultures and discussing each others expectations for life brought us closer together as a couple and opened my eyes to traditions and situations I would not have considered on my own. It sounds like you are both understanding and willing to work with each other, this has been one reason why my relationship has worked so well until now. It’s fun growing together and I wish you the best. It makes me happy that some people can overcome intolerance.
Added: A year & a half after this post was first published, jbf stopped by with an update in the comments section here.
Related posts:
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
JBF – I’m so sorry to hear you’ve encountered such resistance from your boyfriend’s mom. It sounds as though she probably thought initially that you guys wouldn’t last, but now that it’s become serious and she’s having to confront the idea of actually having you for a daughter-in-law, she’s reacting negatively. From what you’ve said here, it sounds like you’ve done everything right so far, so I hope you’re not thinking that maybe her resistance is due to something you did (or didn’t) do.
I’m marrying a Sikh Punjabi man in just a couple of weeks, so I’m fairly familiar with this subset of Indian culture. My experience, fortunately, has been almost uniformly positive – his parents have embraced me with open arms, and welcomed me into their home and family unconditionally. Of course, there are a couple of factors that are different in my case. First, my fiance and his parents have lived in the U.S. for nearly 30 years, so while his parents remain very Indian in many respects, they are also very Americanized. Second, we’re not the first inter-racial couple in his family’s immediate social circle; his cousin is married to a white man, and there are several other Indian/white relationships among the community. His mother even has a friend whose daughter is openly gay! So these might be factors that have contributed to how our relationship has been received – if circumstances were different, I might not have been as embraced as I have been.
However, I also think the personality of the individuals involved has a lot to do with it. It sounds as though your boyfriend’s mom may be just a teensy bit overdramatic (that’s an understatement – from what I’ve read on this and other blogs, this seems to be a prevalent tendency among many Indian mothers, though not exclusive to the group! Certainly many mothers in general are well-versed in the art of the guilt trip…) That’s where all this weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is coming from, I suspect.
It sounds as if you and your boyfriend are approaching this from a very logical, rational, mature standpoint. You’re right that being married means that you are not just in a relationship with one other person – you are marrying a family, and as such, you need to consider how each other’s families will fit into your relationship. However, I wouldn’t lose heart or give up on things just yet! I suspect that if you both stand firm in your commitment to one another and keep on doing what you’re doing (making the effort to understand and embrace their culture), his family, including his mom, will eventually come around. I don’t think you are necessarily facing a “cutting all ties” scenario.
I’m not sure what advice to offer, other than what’s already been said in this post and commentary. But I’ll see if I can get my fiance (who occasionally posts here) to read your comment and offer any suggestions that he might have for you and your boyfriend (being a Sikh Punjabi man himself, marrying a white Christian woman!) Good luck, and please keep us posted on your situation!
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Sorry, JBF, I just reread your post and realized that your boyfriend’s parents have probably been in the U.S. about as long as my fiance’s! So that’s not a source of difference, as I originally thought. But I think this probably just reinforces the probability that yours is not the first (and certainly won’t be the last) interracial relationship in his parents’ community.
June 24th, 2008 at 10:13 am
thank you for the response. I will need to spend more time looking through blogs and other resources. I am new to online communities such as this one. It is comforting to hear back from someone in a slightly similar situation. I think you are dead on with your interpretation. B said he knows of only one other white/brown relationship in his parents community. They were married last month and B’s mom attended the wedding. B is guessing she heard people speaking poorly of the family and that it wore on her.
We have decided to stick with our relationship. We are however reconsidering living together if it would alleviate some of the stress on the situation. We can still move forward in our relationship without living together (although this could not be changed until September due to leasing availability). I know my own family would feel better. I know B’s mom would be happier with that as well, but at the end of the day I am still white. This scenario may be more of a band aid than a real solution. Our goal would be to show we are putting forth effort to be slightly more conservative and respectful.
Right now I still feel very hurt and that despite deciding to continue our relationship, it still feels broken. I know with time we will come back stronger, but it’s hard to imagine that I will feel the same as I did a week ago.
I hope your wedding plans are going well! I wish you the best!
June 24th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
GG & I have comments, but no time
I’ll post this evening.
~A
June 24th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Hi jbf… sounds like the potential MIL is exhibiting some passive/aggressive behavior towards you. Just a guess, but at first it seems like she thought you and B would follow by “her” (or her specific cultures) rules…and then when you moved in together (generally kind of a big no-no in Indian culture) and you didn’t wear a sari (her rule) it really evoked an aggressive response from her. My South Indians guys’ mom is kind of similar. If you kind of do things within in her framwork of understanding—you’re ok…if you step out of that she has real problems understanding/accepting.
The thing is, B’s mom is not likely gonna change that much. She might shape up though if she realizes her relationship with her son is at stake. You and B need to figure out what’s most comfortable for you guys as a couple. It’s perfectly OK to include family in your life planning, but that’s something you two have to figure out yourselves (i.e you can’t let his mom dictate that).
For me, I’m willing to do a lot of stuff Indian. I love the food, will eat it and cook it. I’m cool wearing the saris and raising the kids Hindu. I’m flexible on a good amount of stuff–but I am NOT flexible on R’s mom being the Matriarch of our couplehood/nuclear family. Call it my Westerness seeping through, but that is something I have told R I cannot compromise on. So right now we are in the process of talking about what specifically his parents’ roles would be in our lives. For example, we talked about how often they would visit, and how we would really like them to have more of a backseat, “grandparent” role. Right now, R’s mom likes to call him almost daily, likes to check on him and know the many details of his day. I know her concern is a little higher now (i.e. “loosing her son to a foreign girl because she now knows how serious he is about me because I will meet her in the fall) but I expressed some concern about dealing with that type of thing if we are married and have a family. I would NEVER want R to cut his parents out of his life (they have been pretty good to him and at the very least I think they will be nice enough to me to keep connected to R) but I expressed concern about her current need to discuss daily details, be connected, consulted, etc… so we have yet to sort of fine tune those boundaries.
And that’s what you kind of need to do — hash out those boundaries and give real life, practical situations. For example, if his mom is rude to you like that again B needs to step up somehow so you feel supported. How often do you want to talk to his mom if you are married? What are OK topics to discuss and what are not OK things (i.e. I may ask R’s mom child-rearing advice but she’s not to boss me around in how to do it)? How often will she visit? If she is mean to you…how will B react? How will he set boundaries? If you don’t want a Punjabi wedding are you willing to not have them there?
Maybe this is just my “need for individualism/Westernness” but I truly believe your spouse/partner really needs to come first in your life. Your kids are a close second—but they are really only under your wing for about 18 years. They too will need to grow up and find their own person to “put first.” As far as extended family, your parents/his parents and such, their needs really only need to be met according to your partner/spouses desired wishes.
Even though I’ve had a pretty rocky relationship with my rents, throughout all of this they have said, “Well it’s your life, do whatever you need to to be happy! We’ll support you!” I haven’t heard anything much like that from R’s end…R’s working with them so they understand their roles (his mom’s specifically) will change. I had no idea how emotionally attached R’s mom is to him (he’s the oldest, she had him when she was 17)–and though it seems a little daunting at times–he does need a little more time to steer her in a way where she understands she CAN definitely be involved in his life (mine too if she wants!) but not within the “I run the show and know every detail of my son’s life” context.” And R’s willing to say if she can’t accept that he’s not caving, either. He’s sticking by me. Sometimes it’s hard to trust this (his mom is pretty attached to him) but this is all pretty typical for a Traditional Indian family according to like 4-5 of my Indian friends.
Anyway, sorry to babble so much. Maybe some of that helps. You’re not alone. Sometimes I get overwhelmed and anxious about the potential MIL, but I just try and take it one step at a time because R’s really working to get her in a different place. And, I support R too in this process. He’s worth it
.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Can’t WAIT to hear Aditya & Gori’s comments!!!!
June 24th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Oh!! And just to add, I’m not suggesting any value judgement to stuff like living together/wearing a sari, etc. I don’t think any of those things are wrong myself, but it might help to understand how those things are perceived by B’s family. I think you should first and foremost do what is comfortable for you. For me, if wearing a sari pads the way with the folks a bit…that’s something I’ll DEFINITELY do (and actually kind of like to do, too). Right now, R’s mom really fears she’s going to lose ties to her son–ties that are typically forged through their Telugu language, culture, food, and traditions like arranged marriage. When she heard I liked and cooked the food, saw a pic of me in a sari, and knew about how I come from a family tradition rooted in taking care of their elders too, she felt much more at ease I think (but things are still going to take time
). All of those things, like the food and traditions, were described to me as “cultural touchpoints” that might have been created through an arranged marriage are gone in R’s mom’s mind. If I can meet them half way with religious things, learning a bit of Telugu, etc. — it’s going to help them feel more comfortable I think. And by extension, R and I will benefit greatly by having a much smoother time incorporating them in our lives!
June 24th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
thanks for all the comments! just to clear up something: I was super excited that B’s mom gave me a sari. I thought it was a meaningful gift (despite her condescending tone informing me that she had to have it special made as I am taller than any woman in India…I am 5′9″, tall yes, but not enough to constitute comments like this from her) and would be more than willing to wear it to their home or family functions. I told her I was excited to wear it and have places to wear it too and she coldly said why would you need somewhere to wear it? I thought she gave it to me as a sign of welcoming me to some of their family events. B did stick up for me here and told his mom she was not fair to me. B’s mom does not agree with wearing Sari’s in public while in America.
I too like the food and cooking and have made every effort to do this. I even offered to go to B’s house last Christmas and spend time cooking with his mother. It was all of this that made her sudden change of heart so painful for both of us.
June 24th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Well jbf, you are doing MANY, MANY things to put your potential in-laws at ease. And, I REALLY glad that B’s stood up for you–that will be key!
I know there are people out there who basically loathe the sari and a lot of other cultural things they just have no desire/comfort with in terms of incorporating into their lives—which is fine. However, one must understand this attitude will have its implications with Traditional Indian parents who find a great deal of comfort in their traditions whether you agree with them or not.
From the sound of it you are keeping optimistic, and really putting your heart into this–good for you. Even if his parents choose to reject you, you can know in your heart you gave it your very best without being angry, attacking and judgemental towards them. That says A LOT about your character and you can always live with knowing you gave it your all
.
June 24th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
My (beautiful and wonderful!
fiancee recommended I take a look at this post because I’m also a Sikh man marrying a Christian woman. While I think the “common” cultural background might give me some insight, I suspect individual personalities and local cultural and familial influences might be more at work here (ironically, I was just talking with my sisters about exactly what our “culture” means for us and what exactly it is for us).
But, more to the point, I definitely agree with the other posters that your future MIL is manipulative and passive/aggressive. However, I also agree that moving in together before marriage might have been a bit (or more than a bit) of a faux pas. I wonder if communication between your boyfriend and his family (and what he relates of that communication) is really as open and correct as it seems to be. E.g., when you say “His whole life he was taught that as long as he was with someone who loved and respected him that he was doing the right thing” but then “In high school he went to school dances with white girls and his mother cried and locked her self in her room for weeks”, there’s a disconnect there. What he’s communicating (he was taught that as long as he found someone good all was okay) is not what he was really experiencing as a child (i.e., it obviously *wasn’t* okay).
I’m not sure where this mis-communication happened but, even if it seems like his mom has changed on a dime, this doesn’t seem like new behaviour for her; even from that one incident you cited, she’s obviously got a history of these kinds of hysterics and drama. I wouldn’t expect her to change at all; hopefully, she will in time, but I would probably plan for it not changing, at least in the relative short term.
But I’d also examine my own interpretations; e.g., when you say she’s cold or condescending or didn’t hug you, are you sure you’re interpreting those actions correctly? E.g., was she a huge hugger and suddenly completely changed? Was she overly friendly and ebullient and is now completely different? Were other things going on in her own life? Also, you mention you’ve moved to a new town and have nothing else there; isn’t the same true for your boyfriend? I’m not trying to justify her stance because, based on just that one high school incident you described, she’s obviously prone to hysterics and potentially unstable. And I do think you’ve done a lot of very considerate things.
But I do sense a disconnect, as well. Perhaps your boyfriend isn’t understanding his mom very well but moving in together before marriage, the mixed messages (what he thought he was taught even in the face of incidents like the high school one), etc., lead me to believe it might be instructive to hear the other side of it, as well (if she’s willing to have that dialogue, of course). It’s a tough situation for you, no doubt, but I suspect there are other elements that might help you both reach some better resolution. Best of luck!
June 24th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
As usual, my brilliant and amazing
fiance is spot on with his comments! After some thought, I’d definitely have to agree that moving in together before marriage might not have been the best idea in your case. You mentioned you were reconsidering this decision, so I think you’ve already come to the same conclusion. One thing you said in one of your comments struck me, though:
“Right now I still feel very hurt and that despite deciding to continue our relationship, it still feels broken. I know with time we will come back stronger, but it’s hard to imagine that I will feel the same as I did a week ago.”
I would just add that perhaps this is one of those places in your relationship where it deepens from infatuation into a more mature, and ultimately more meaningful and stable love. In other words, it’s maybe a GOOD thing that you don’t feel the same after this! If a relationship is truly going to last, it has to change – it can’t remain static all the time. So keep in mind that it might not be broken, but just in the process of transitioning into something better.
Picking up on what others have said, though, I would suggest that you examine your boyfriend’s response to this situation. Is he willing to stick up for you and defend you as his chosen partner? As NeoKalypso stated, most Westernized people would place their spouse as the most important relationship in their lives, followed closely by kids, then extended family or friends. Not to say that this is how it should be for everyone, but you and your boyfriend seem to have determined that this is the way for you. Are his actions supporting this? If so, great – if not, then together you might need to reassess what kind of relationship you want to have, and privately you might want to rethink whether this is the best situation for you.
I think perhaps that some of the disconnect that my fiance (Gumby) spoke about might be a result of B’s own struggle to define his cultural identity, as the American-born son of what sounds like two fairly traditional Indian parents. It may be difficult to have the sort of dialogue with B’s mom that he suggested, given her irrationality and the fact that emotions seem to be running high right now on both sides. But I think it might be worth a try!
June 24th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Everyone else has given such good advice so far! I agree that moving in together was a bit of a faux pas. Your SOs mother might have been embarrassed by that–there may have been some talk about it among her peers, especially if they were already making comments about that other mixed marriage she attended. I also agree with Gumby that it sounds like this is less of a cultural thing and more related to the particular personalities involved. It sounds like this woman is just a drama queen.
The most important thing is that your SO stand up for you to his parents, and that they understand that you two are a unit now, and that you are serious. If they sense any weakness in his resolve, they could exploit that.
When are you planning to get married? If you were already willing to live together, why not just go ahead and get married? Maybe I’m a bit too influenced by my own fairly conservative family and also by Indian cultural values, but I think that living together is not very different from being married anyway. If you were married then your SO’s family would have no choice but to accept you.
Also, I’m going to agree with mocroidh again when she said that this doesn’t mean your relationship is “broken.” Every relationship goes through tough times, and that’s what can make you stronger as a couple. It’s a myth that a relationship should have that excited, infatuated feeling forever. It has to change and deepen.
Good luck with everything…be strong!
June 25th, 2008 at 2:26 am
Hmmm, a lot of great points have been brought up, so I’ll just add a few in that might help.
1. Discussions between B & you. You wrote that “B and I went over everything we could think of, what a wedding would mean, how we would raise children, expectation from each others families, holidays, etc.” First off, this is a really great start – keeping good communication going between the two of you is always important, but especially when your relationship is being tested. However, in line with what Gumby said, I’m wondering if some important details or background information is being lost in translation. When Aditya & I started discussing his family & culture we had a fair amount of miscommunication until we both (separately) realized that I didn’t have the background knowledge to pick up the details that he just “naturally” knew (and vice versa in our case since he hasn’t lived in the US that long). And we still have trouble with different personal connotations of tone & word choice when we’re arguing/discussing. Personally, I’ve found books about intercultural relationships & your partner’s specific culture are a great way to figure out where the holes are in background knowledge & understanding.
For your situation I’d suggest trying to find Love’s Revolution (a book that focuses on extended family dynamics of interracial marriages), Intercultural Marriage: Promises & Pitfalls (a book that goes through all of the main cultural components and the possible problems that develop from them), and a book that specifically talks about B’s cultural group (there are plenty on Punjabis, Sikhs, and/or Indian immigrants, depending on what would suit you best). Reading through these together – and discussing the different points the authors’ raise – will probably help you both understand better where the other person is coming from. Even a very general book like CultureShock: India can be helpful if you let your discussions of which things apply to B’s family be the springboard for your conversation.
2. A timeline of family dynamics It might be helpful for you & B to sit down together and discuss when his mother acts up, and what sort of things might be triggering it. For instance, you mentioned his mom was upset when he went to dances with white girls in high school. Was he somewhat serious about those girls, or were they going as friends? What did he tell his mother about the situation? Did his potential future choices in dates post-high school come up at that time? (“Face it, Mother, I like dating white girls & I’ll probably marry one someday in the future…”) Why did she change her tune during college? How much hesitation did she have in accepting you at first, and how serious were you at the time?
I agree with others that both the recent wedding & the two of you living together might be events that have caused her to reconsider how she felt about the relationship. But is she worried about how others in the community will view her w/ a white DIL, or about the effects of a white DIL on her relationship with her son, or some mixture of the two? For instance, is she worried about tongues waggling about the two of you living together, or could she be worried about how you’re “causing her son’s moral decay” or some rot like that? You said that B had made it clear to his family previous to your relationship that he wasn’t religious, and wasn’t interested in doing many traditional Indian things – but could she be using you as a scapegoat for his attitudes anyways?
3. Could she be bluffing? Does B’s mother really seem like the type to cut him off completely if he doesn’t fall into line here? I think a lot of times parents – particularly ones who expect their adult children to generally do what they’re told – will make an ultimatum without considering what will happen if the child doesn’t do as told. After all, if B’s mother is very traditional, she likely did what her parents told her to do. Is it possible that, if the two of you stick together, she’ll eventually relent before your wedding? Or right afterwards? Aditya’s family were warm to me prior to our marriage, but afterwards I was truly a daughter in the family (with all the benefits and responsibilities). In a culture where family is so important, it’s possible that once you’re family by B’s mother’s standards she’ll just accept you anyways.
I have a few more ideas, but it’s past my bedtime…
June 25th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Wow, a lot of people had a lot of great things to say…
Maa (my mother) & I were actually talking about these situations last week, and I came to a realization…
In the south asian context, initial resistance is more common in MILs than FIL’s… this made me wonder about the possible reasons for this.
First and foremost, most south asian MIL’s are home-makers. Most of their lives have been spent taking care of the family (and the kids)… The introduction of any new addition not only moves the fulcrum, but also has the potential to destabilize the dynamics of the family. This risk is especially higher when the new addition comes from an entirely different culture – and thus a different set of values, expectations, etc.
Secondly, with the traditionally higher “value” of men in south asian cultures, the status of the mother is also elevated when she has a son. As a result, mothers often have very close relationships with their sons… again, an introduction of new woman in the son’s life put’s the mother-son relationship at risk, as the son will then start transferring his loyalties.
Even in situations where the son values his mother and wife exactly the same, there are still changes in the relationship between the mother and her son… which -while inevitable- is a scary prospect to face.
I think similar trends can be seen in the west in fathers and their daughters… fathers tend to be very protective of their daughters, and the introduction of “other” men in the girl’s life is often a challenging situation that fathers have trouble dealing with.
~Aditya
June 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am
GREAT stuff–everyone. This is just really thoughtful, productive, good stuff that will hopefully help jbf and others process these issues in a rational, workable way.
Gori & Aditya — I have had a few recent flare-ups with R because I didn’t have the background to understand the “natural details” he knew. All of this “mother-son attachment on steroids” really kind of blew me away at first. It still seems a little overboard from my Western view, but doing some reseach among my Indian friends helped me to understand it’s actually quite normal in very Traditional, South Indian families (as Aditya pointed out–THANK YOU!!!!).
I guess that is sort of the hot button issue for me. Will R’s mom be able to take the necessary dynamic shift in stride…or not? Will it take too much of a toll on R–will he perhaps think, “This would have been so much easier for an Indian girl to understand…” Will R feel comfortable shifting the dynamic to what I require for us to be, well, married? If he does this, will he feel sad and detached from his mom (I don’t want that…)? Or will R be like, “What are you freaking out about?! The amount of calls/visits is no big deal…” Can this dynamic shift be done through the “slow to acclimitize the mom” process R prefers (and has been working so far) or will there really need to be a *break,* a distinct event that will make his mom understand he is not soley “hers” anymore? He says with great confidence he believes the necessary shift will occur and we can deal with things. I should note, R doesn’t feel like the needs to lean and depend on his mom, but she is still very emotionally dependent on him. It’s just so hard to have faith that all will settle well when you don’t intuitively *know* or understand the dynamic in the first place.
And finally (before I overwhelm myself and readers), we should all bear in mind these are really issues one might encounter when thoughtfully considering a lifetime commitment with anyone, from any culture. Maybe how some Indian/American unions bring such issues boiling right up to the surface…is actually a good thing??
Often these issues can be “hidden” with 2 people from the SAME culture because they assume their assumptions are the same–but that’s not always the case. Just lookin’ for a silver lining! 
June 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am
In addition, I don’t have that typical father/daughter relationship Aditya keenly pointed out. I’ve been pretty independent and self-sufficient my whole life (and pride myself on it…)—perhaps this makes it even harder for me to understand the mother/son thing, too.
When I invision having a son, or kids in general, I don’t expect them to fulfill my emotional needs. I would seek emotional support and fulfillment through my husband (and myself!). I know because I was raised in a different context I am at more liberty to think this way, but I’d like to think some of these notions came from something within me, too. I hope to be strongly attached to my kids but also cultivate their own strength and independent decision-making. One of my favorite child-rearing quotes is:
“Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself…
You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.”
I actually plan to have it framed and put in the nursery some day
.
OK enough of my tangents!
June 25th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Just wanted to pick up on something that NeoKalypso said:
“we should all bear in mind these are really issues one might encounter when thoughtfully considering a lifetime commitment with anyone, from any culture. Maybe how some Indian/American unions bring such issues boiling right up to the surface…is actually a good thing??
Often these issues can be “hidden” with 2 people from the SAME culture because they assume their assumptions are the same–but that’s not always the case”
That’s definitely true. Case in point: the relationship between my mom, my younger sister, and her husband. All white, American, middle-class, Protestant, so you’d think they would have no problems at all understanding each other, right? Wrong…their relationship has been rocky from the start, and occasionally flared up into some pretty unpleasant fights. It’s somewhat ironic that my parents actually probably have more in common with my fiance and his parents (from India) than they do with my brother-in-law and his parents (from America)! Lucky for me, I guess…not so lucky for my poor sister and mom, who are constantly battling each other.
What this really points out is how personalities are so important here, sometimes more important than cultural differences. Some people are easy to get along with, and some are hard, regardless of where they were born and how they were raised. One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies is somewhat apropos, I think. It’s from The Last of the Mohicans, when Hawkeye (the white adopted son of a Mohican Native American) turns to Cora (a British woman) and says, “My father warned me about people like you. He said do not try to understand them, and do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart, and make no sense.” I kind of look at that statement in a positive light. There are always going to be people in life who you just won’t get along with, for whatever reason. You have to acknowledge the differences, and move forward. And if the story of The Last of the Mohicans is any indication, people aren’t always so far apart as they might seem at first. After all, Hawkeye and Cora ended up together at the end…
June 25th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I am sorry to hear this is happening to you. As an indian guy who will more than likely have to go through the same thing i can offer you this advice. Indian parents that swear they will never have anything to do with their kids if they dont marry who they want inevitably give up this belief. My own parents said this to both me and my brother and swore it for years but after my brother married a white girl they started to come around. The fact of the matter is that even though alot of our parents have friends here, their family their children mean more. And though not always apparent they do love their kids and being away from them is hard for them. I am pretty certain that even though your future mother in law swears up and down that she will have nothing to do with either of you its an empty threat and she will relent over time. I think your idea of moving into separate places is a good idea. Living together, though logically a sound idea, might be the actual cause of the discord with your future mother in law. I know with more traditional parents (with even more traditional friends) this can cause problems.
i wish you the best and hope you guys have a long and happy relationship
June 25th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
“Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself…
You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.”
this is Kahlil Gibran right? I had to memorize the whole poem for an indian function when i was a kid
June 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Yes! It’s Gibran
June 25th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
That is Kahlil Gibran, he was from Lebanon (1883 – 1931). In the long run the young people will have to live in the US or split. The old ways, the old customs, the old expectations live in India. For better or worse, new ways, new customs and new expectations live here.
All the best
June 25th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
JBF – First of all, I just wanted to tell you my heart goes out to you. I’m so sorry you have to go through this – especially being initially accepted and then totally rejected – I can’t imagine how painful that must be.
You’ve been offered a lot of wonderful advice and support already. I just wanted to add that I was really struck by your comments:
“A mixed marriage does mean that people in the community will shun B’s parents. It makes me very sad. What hurts me is that she changed her own views.”
and “B said he knows of only one other white/brown relationship in his parents community. They were married last month and B’s mom attended the wedding. B is guessing she heard people speaking poorly of the family and that it wore on her.”
I’ve been very lucky that my fiancé’s parents have welcomed me with open arms into their family. But a lot of that acceptance comes as a result of the hurdles that my future sister-in-law and her white husband overcame about six years ago when she they married. When she introduced B to her parents, they immediately loved him as a person, but when she started to speak about marrying him they were absolutely terrified. Although they were no were near as dramatic as your guy’s mom, they were pretty adamant that she should stop seeing him and find someone from her own culture – so much so that when he proposed to her, despite how much she loved him, she couldn’t bring herself to say yes without knowing how her parents would handle it.
She was the first in their family as well as their community to contemplate marrying a non-Indian. Her parents had no idea how a white son-in-law would be received by their community, and their community is the absolute center of their religious and social life. Without the community, they’d be lost. They were scared they’d be shunned, and this was powerful enough to make them forget how impressed they were and how much they really liked B. To their credit, when B approached them and asked for their blessing for him to marry their daughter they eventually consented (after giving him a three hour lecture on what it means to be a part of Indian culture).
And as a result of the marriage, my future in-laws *were* treated poorly by members of the community and did face some cruel words and opposition because of their new son-in-law. But it really was just a select few who had a problem, and it turned out most people were warm and welcoming, especially because B was so open to participating in their cultural practices.
Anyway, to me it sounds like your guy’s mom really does in her heart of hearts does like you, but perhaps she is absolutely terrified of what will happen to her place in the community should you marry her son. If her identity is a closely tied to her community as it for my future in-laws, the thought that she may be shunned can be terrifying. This must be especially scary for her if her marriage isn’t all that great and she lacks support from her husband (being part of her community may give her a sense of belonging and support that her marriage does not). Also, I was thinking – if she never had a good relationship with her own mother-in-law, she may have trouble imagining the benefits of having a positive relationship with you. She may think an adversarial relationship is par for the course anyway. I think the relationship models we have in our lives sometimes have powerful residual effects.
I don’t mean to excuse her behavior and her reactions, and it’s not fair to you or your guy at all, and you certainly don’t deserve it. I wanted to say that despite all you’ve been through I think it’s amazing how much thought you’ve put in to looking at things from her perspective and trying to understand where she is coming from. The willingness to look at things from the point of view of someone who is causing you so much pain speaks volumes about your character and strength. You should give yourself credit for that.
I don’t have much else to offer you other than words of encouragement. Hang in there! We’re all pulling for you!
June 26th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Hi! I am in a very similar situation right now. I am a white girl (I am of Russian origin, I was a child, when my family moved to US from Russia), and I have been dating an Indian guy for several years now. He’s an Indian guy who’s actually from India (Patna, Bihar), and his parents have never lived in US. They are very much against our relationship and any idea of the two of us ever getting married. His mom is especially against it. She has even refused to meet me at all, though she and the father are in US right now for a short period of time to visit my bf, and this is a rare opportunity for us to meet, as usually they are in India. So I’m not even sure, if I’ll be able to meet either of the parents, not to mention getting on good terms with them. My bf first breached the subject of our relationship about a year ago to them, but they are still being very stubborn on this issue.
But here’s what I realize about the situation. I think the mom is being very manipulative in both my situation and yours. In both situations the mom is trying to convince the son of inevitability of a horrible picture of the future: that if he marries a non-Indian girl, he will lose the relationship with at least his mom for the rest of his life and maybe or even likely other family members too. There will be all these other horrible consequences, such as uneasiness at family events and gatherings, etc, etc. Until the marriage takes place the mom’s goal may likely be to continue doing everything possible to make this reality seem absolutely inevitable to scare the son away from marrying against her wishes. And I think it’s quite possible that in both of our situations the moms will only escalate their efforts to break up the couple, as the actual date of the wedding approaches. As the actual plans for the wedding progress and it seems more and more inevitable to the mom that it will happen, she may just try harder and harder to stop it altogether. In a situation like this I think it’s very important to take a step back from time to time and examine the picture as a whole from a rational perspective: yes, the mom is saying all these things to convince the son and everyone else that she will never accept the girl and will reject the son, if he marries her, etc, etc, but what is there objectively to guarantee that this will actually happen? How likely is it even that she will continue rejecting him for the rest of her life? Truth is that parents’ love for their children makes it extremely hard, if not impossible, to reject their child forever. I’m not saying that it doesn’t ever happen, it does, but it is rare. I have done a lot of research on my own on these kinds of situations where the Indian parents were very against their child marrying non-Indian. In some of the cases the child bends to the parents will and gives up his romantic relationship with the non-Indian person. But in those couples who persevered and did get married despite the Indian parent’s vehement objections and promises to excommunicate the child from the family, the parents did come around eventually to accepting the child and his spouse. In some cases it took several years after the marriage for the parents to come around, in some cases it took the birth of a grandchild for them to come around, but in most of cases shortly after the marriage is actually done, they accept it because they have no choice (Indian parents tend to be very much against divorce, so they typically don’t hope or want a divorce to happen in their family, once the marriage has taken place). I have only found some situations with Muslim parents, who never accepted their child after the child married a non-Muslim forever and ever. I have not found any examples of Indian non-Muslim parents who did that. Though many Indian parents make promises of rejecting the child from the family, if they marry non-Indian, real-life examples tend to show that after the marriage, especially as time passes, they do change their mind about this. And the examples I’m referring to here are stories of actual situations like this that I was able to find though Indian people that I know and through reading stories of people in blogs and forums on-line.
So my main point is that even though this situation can be very painful and frustrating, as I know from personal experience, and it may seem at times like this is a barrier between the two of you that you may not be able overcome, the truth really is that it is possible to overcome this barrier. I have found stories of real people in this situation who have overcome it, and hearing about them does offer a different perspective on the situation. You have to take it with a grain of salt when parents vow to reject their child for the rest of their life or reject their child’s non-Indian spouse.
In Russian folk mythology the young couple who are in love often have to overcome tremendous obstacles before they are able to unite in marriage. Persevering in their determination to pursue their love and relationship against all obstacles and set-backs actually makes their union in the end stronger and more valuable because they had to fight so hard to get to that coveted goal. I believe that though this wisdom comes from fairy tales, it is actually very true and applicable to real life. This is how I choose to look at the whole difficulty with my bf’s Indian parents, and it gives me the emotional strength and confidence that I need to not lose heart in my difficult situation.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:43 am
JBF – Everyone here has offered such wonderful insights, and I don’t have much else to say, although CT’s post did trigger one thing for me. Like CT, my husband’s family welcomed me from the beginning. And also like CT, this is most likely because there have been many other mixed marriages in their community. You mentioned that there is one recent mixed marriage in your IL’s community. Would it be possible to reach out to that couple and seek advice/support? It may seem awkward for you to do that if you don’t know the couple personally, but the Indian community is used to having a friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend reach out to them just because they’re connected in some random way (that’s part of why the guest lists at Indian weddings are so huge, ha!), so at least the Indian half of the couple probably wouldn’t find it that strange. I think that it would be helpful for you to talk to them since they have first-hand knowledge of your specific community, and can give you some pointers for dealing with your FMIL. For example, if your FMIL was sitting with the 5% of people at the wedding who were the nay-sayers, when in reality 95% of the people were happy for them, you may be able to bring that up with her. Or, they could let you know if anyone was particularly supportive of them, and perhaps would be willing to stick up for you as well.
Above all, and this has been echoed throughout everyone else’s advice, you are absolutely doing the right thing by continuing to be respectful of your FMIL and continuing to reach out to her. It is quite true that you are marrying a family, not just your fiance (and this is true of any marriage, not just mixed ones). These people will always be part of your life in some way, and even if they do cut you off now, there is a good chance they’ll be back, so you don’t want to burn bridges. Like one of my husband’s favorite sayings, “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” Positivity and persistance will pay off in the end. Good luck!
June 28th, 2008 at 12:46 am
JBF–I’m a 25 year old Indian-American who is dating a 26 year old white American. I’ve read the post about your story and the many comments that your situation has sparked. These comments are great, and I don’t know how much I can add. But as someone who, right now, is very much in your boyfriend’s position, I will try to share my thoughts and philosophies that help get me through a most certainly diffcult situation.
I will start with general impressions and then will try to apply those impressions to your situation. I’ll end by telling you my story, and how you might be able to use some of my experiences to help understand your own.
1. You WILL be alone (but not in a bad way!)
The biggest difficulty growing up as a child of immigrants from an Indian culture that often diverges from western culture is the feeling of loneliness. And it’s not a loneliness in a sappy, fatalistic type way. Rather, it’s a feeling of constantly being unsure of where your thoughts come from–whether they are Indian, American, young or old. It’s a little hard to explain, but I’ll try.
The cultural norms that many Indian parents grew up around are ones that are often difficult to translate into American life (“thanks captain obvious,” you’re probably thinking). When our parents moved to this country, they were often taking big risks (and ironically, themselves going against the wishes of many of their own family members), and when they arrived here, many Indian immigrants found community and companionship in other Indian immigrants who had gone through a similar struggle and a similar transformation. So the difficulty of transporting the strictly Eastern values became a little less difficult, particularly since Indian immigrants now had a community with other Indian immigrants in America from which they can gain strength and continue to live like they did back in India–kind of. The “Indian” culture that resulted in American is a unique culture, that is quite different from both American and also Indian culture. So looking at it from both sides of the coin, you have the following. Indian immigrants who come to America are free to carry on some aspects of Indian culture, but in an environment that isn’t purely Indian. Indian immigratns who come to America are also free to enjoy the different aspects of American life, without some of the constraints of Indian society. So the Indian culture that developed in America wasn’t a reactionary culture (that is, it didn’t develop in reaction to the society around it, as it would in India); rather, it was a culture that was able to develop grow in an environment that is completely new and different from that in which it ordinarily grows. This explains strangely “odd” but quite refreshing cultural experiences like my very traditional Indian parents becoming very vocal and passionate SEC football fans.
So, what does this have to do with being alone? Well, when these Indian immigrants (like my parents) have kids (like me), the kids are exposed to the entirety of the society around them–Indian and American. Our parents, very understandably, had barriers to American society, and organized their community so that they could look through the window and observe American society, but could never really imagine leaving the walls and boundaries that defined their *new* Indian culture in America. The result has been, at least from my experience, is that the children of Indian immigrants don’t know what those boundaries are–where those windows exist. We constantly go back and forth. And almost poetically, just as our parents did, we create another *new* Indian culture in America. Except this time, the culture created is an Indian-AMERICAN culture, which is distinct from the Indian culture IN America (that our parents created), which in turn was different from the Indian culture in INDIA that our parents’ parents lived in.
The loneliness comes from the fact that as children born in America from Indian descent, we consider ourselves as Americans with an Indian heritage; but equally important, as also strictly Americans. So, sometimes, you see many Indian-Americans gravitate towards one another, just as our parents gravitated towards Indian immigrants a generation ago. But other times, as is the case with me, we gravitate towards being an American, with Indian culture influencing their thoughs. Still, at other times, Indian-Americans completely identify only with American culture, and disown their Indian background. This does not mean that any one of us are any less Indian; nor does it mean that we are any less American. And it is not an identity crisis. Instead of seeking to occupy one world, we seek to occupy two, three, or four worlds. That’s one source of loneliness. But in jumping between worlds, we find ourselves restricted with those whom we can identify with. It’s a strange thing–we’re comfortable hopping between divergent cultures, and divergent sub-cultures, but we find ourselves (many times) all alone no matter where we end up.
Now add this to the universal fact that across cultures, a new generation will inevitably have thoughts that are different from the old generation. Heck, even within a generation, a certain “type” of person will have different thoughts than other “types” of people (though I hate saying “type of person”). This is where the loneliness is the most difficult. Becuase when we say, think, or do things that are different from our Indian parents, or from other children born in America to Indian parents, or from other regular American kids, it’s hard to identify where those differences come from.
Am I an ardent supporter of Barack Obama because I’m young? Because I’m an idealist? Because I’m Indian? Because I’m Indian American? Because I’m an American? Because I’m a liberal? Because of all of these things? It’s hard to answer these questions. In the alternative, and more relevant to your situation, am I in love with an American girl because I’m no longer an Indian? No longer an Indian-American? Your boyfriend’s parents will try to claim that it’s because he’s no longer an “Indian.” Your boyfriend’s cousins will try to claim because he’s no longer an “Indian-American.” People that occupy and identify themselves primarily within one of those “worlds” discussed above will inevitably think that your boyfriend is no longer a part of that world and that culture. In reality, it’s the combination of all identities, and not the lack of any of them, that has shaped who he is today. It’s difficult to understand and relate to that.
The reason why I say that you will be alone is because it will be hard for you to understand your boyfriends situation. It will also be hard for your boyfriend to understand your situation. You two are hoping to create a life together, which, fittingly, will create another cultural adaptation for you children, just like your boyfriend, his parents, and his grandparents experienced (and also, very likely that you and your side of the family experienced when they came and settled in America). I’ve found that it helps to acknowledge that there will be times when you just won’t understand, and that there will be times when he just won’t understand either. The key is to recognize and believe that your love is meant to overcome this disconnects; and if your love does in fact do that, it’s certainly worth fighting for. So don’t be afraid if you feel lonely at times. Just try to reach the understanding that both will know that, at times, you will be lonely. That makes all the difference.
2. Recognize that doing what you believe is your fate/destiny will not always end with making people happy.
Until very recently, when I have started to face the situation that you are also going through, I used to believe that, in the end, if your fate guides you to be with the person you love, everything will work out. Now, I very much believe that you should still follow your gut, your fate, your destiny, not because you think that all around happiness lies at the end of the road, but rather, because your fate is compelling you to follow its course. I guess what I’m trying to say is that you should enter your decision making process with the hope that things will work out well, but not with the expectation that they will.
3. Affirm your commitment and love to your boyfriend often, and ask that he do the same for you.
When my girlfriend met my parents, it didn’t go well at all. The only thing that I knew that I could do is to assure my girlfriend that I’ll always look out for her, and I’ll always work to protect her. That is, no matter what happens, it’s me and her, and that I’m making a commitment to stick by her, through thick and thin, and to defend her however I can.
Think about it. If you are really are committed to each other, you should be able to assure each other that you will always be there to defend and honor one another. There are many people out there who are not dealing with these intercultural issues, but over the course of a relationship/marriage, difficult and tough issues come up. Couples have to get through these issues with love and a periodic and strong affirmation for that love. When I take a step back, I think that intercultural/interracial problems are really just one variety or example of a difficult problem that a couple could face. Don’t get me wrong; these problems are and can always be very, very tough. They can be seemingly insurmountable. But they are also just one variety of a whole range of problem, each of which is uniquely and similarly difficult. And though I still stick by advice #1 (above), I think that reaffirming your commitments and reassuring one another that you will stand by each other is the only way to feel sure about something. You may not be sure that your relationship with his family will work out, but you will be sure that he will stick by you, through everything.
4. Take time to think about what you want; ask him to take time to think about what he wants.
Now that you know how difficult it *can* be (and hopefully, it won’t get any worse), try to take some time to assess whether or not you feel like your strong enough to make it through the trying times that may be certain to lie ahead. Give him time to think about whether he can be strong enough too. This doesn’t have to be in a sad, “let’s take a break” type way; instead, mantain open communication and express your feelings, doubts, and fears with one another. Try to set concrete definitions as to what it will take for you to be strong, what you have to be strong for, how long you have to be strong, and what you need from each other. Try to estimate how your expectations will change over time (i.e. do you expect that the relationship will be better in a year? two years? after marriage?).
5. Try to identify the tools you still have at your disposal.
The great thing about life is that you can always manage to find an ace in your pocket, even if you think all of them have been dealt out. Try to identify what strategies you still have available to try and make the situation work. For example, after I introduced my girlfriend to my parents, they hated everything about the situation. They called me awful names, said I was disowned, said that I wasn’t their son anymore, and said that I brought great shame and disappointment to them (the funny part is that this was the day before my graduation from law school, which is supposed to be one of the proudest moments in my life and their lives too). But early on, I resolved myself to approach the problem in a certain way. I would not argue with them. I would listen to their objections, try to rationally address them, and would not get angry back in return no matter what horrible things they said. Even after they refuse to talk to me, I am still calling them often to let them know that I haven’t cut them out, and that I’m still interested in having a dialogue with them. My whole point is that I realized that the biggest ace in my pocket, right now, is time. I can give the situation time. My girlfriend and I can adjust our situation to still live our lives and be together, but we can provide my family with some time to accept everything. But we may reach a point where time no longer is a valuable asset. At that point, we’ll look to see what our next “ace” is.
From your situation, it sounds like your boyfriend’s family has known you for a long time. So maybe time isn’t that valuable. But there may be other things. I’m not sure what those things might be, and it depends entirely on the circumstances of your relationship. But I just write this to say that there’s always that ace in the pocket; there’s always a way to work the solution. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the problem will be solved, but you can always work the problem and try to move towards something.
I promised you my story. Seeing as how this post is probably ridiculously long anyway, I’ll try to keep it short. My girlfriend and I met in college. We dated for 2 years in college, separated for a very short while, and got back together after we realized that we were meant to be with each other. We’ve been dating for 2 years (or 5, depending on who you ask
). She moved to the city where I started law school, and ended up going to (and graduating from) grad school at the same University where I just graduated from law school. I didn’t tell my parents about her for these 2 years because I knew they would freak out.
When my parents finally came to visit me for the week of my graduation, I decided I would tell them. My girlfriend is moving to a different city with me (where we both will be working, but not living together yet), and given that and the fact that I had just graduated law school but hadn’t started studying for the bar, I figured that it would be a perfect time to tell them and deal with the hell that came with it. When I told them, my parents were immediately outraged. They threatened to skip my graduation and make the 10 hour drive home immediately. They said some pretty mean things. My sibiling, however, convinced them to stay, and they attended my graduation and met my girlfriend. We went out to lunch to “celebrate” (haha), whereupon my dad refused to even look at her and my mom just vaguely made very limited conversation with her. They didn’t say anything else to me for about two weeks, after which they told me that I wasn’t their son anymore, that I was a huge disappointment, and that I am never allowed back in their house.
It’s been about a month since this all happened. My parents now talk to me a little, but they still tell me how I made a poor decision. I get random emails and phone calls about how I, supposedly, don’t care about my parents. All of this while studying for the bar exam.
It’s tough, and there are definitely nights where I don’t get any sleep (I’m either sleepless because of this situation or because of the bar exam!). But I don’t blame my parents for all the things they’ve said. Even if they never accept my decision, I know that in a weird, twisted way, they want what’s best for me, even if they have a skewed idea of what that is. It’s as if you take the laws of one country, and move it over to a different country that has completely different legal structure. The laws are (allegedly) meant to protect the people, but it might not translate over very well, and in fact, it might just seem like a twisted and weird law in the new setting.
I’m also more convinced than ever that my girlfriend loves me unconditionally and that she will always be here to stand by me. And I know that I’ll always stand by her. Who would go through something like that, come out the other side, and say that I still want to be with you? The fact that she did is a statement of unconditional love.
On one final note, not to get too philosophical, but when I take a step back and look at this situation, I realize that this battle has been fought throughout human history. Not only with love, but with philosophy, government, religion, science, etc. There is always resistance to change–and when you’re trying to hold steady on your path to change, there’s always going to be that feeling that you’re “losing something” (like Indian values) or that you’re disappointing someone, or even that you’re being selfish. But this really is how things change. And like I said earlier, I used to think that change was something magical–where you courageously stand up for something, and over time everyone close to you manages to see how wise you were for standing up for it. But what I now believe is that change is fate–that when you believe that you are compelled to do something–whether personally or broadly; socially, politically, religiously, whatever. You are standing up for what your heart (or your gut) tells you is right and there are people close to you that might disagree. They might always disagree, they might come around, or they might never disagree. These are the cards that you are dealt, and everyone is dealt a different hand. But as long as you are SURE that you are following what you believe is your fate, what you believe is right, you really have no other choice. Well you do, but you only have one life to live.
It will be a tough road, for you, for your boyfriend, for the millions of other couples out there, for me too. And it may come down to some very difficult choices. Maybe even some unimaginable ones. Or things may get better. As Steve Jobs said “you can’t connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards. You have to trust that the dots will connect themselves.” Trust yourself, and trust that 50 years from now, whatever you decide, you’ll be able to look back and say that not only are you satisfied with the path your life took, but in hindsight, connecting the dots, fate dictated that this was the only possible path that your life would have taken.
Sorry for this being so long. It was a nice way to reach out, and to express myself a little too. It was also nice to take a break from a long day of reviewing for the bar. I hope everything works out. Goodluck.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:54 am
Does anyone have aptiwl81’s email address? I am so moved by his posting. I am going through the exact same situation except my parents found out about my Indian boyfriend (I am Chinese) on the DAY of my graduation via a photo that was taken of us in my apartment. aptiwl81, where are you?!?! Help!
November 16th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Hi aha80,
I just saw your comment. Sorry that I haven’t responded, but I haven’t really even checked this blog post until now (almost 18 months later). As you might predict, a major event in my relationship happened that is causing me to revisit these thoughts.
First, an update as to what happened since I last posted. My parents’ initial hesitation faded. They went from pretty much disowning me, to being neutral (and pretending like my girlfriend didn’t exist) to actually meeting her again and telling her that she is now part of the family and that they welcome her as a daughter with open arms. That last part happened about 3 months ago. But, as is the way with life, that has changed too. My g/f and I went to visit my mother (my father is out of town), and my mother pretty much told her that she does not approve and cannot approve of her. Now, my parents are back to saying that I have to choose between them or her. So really, we’re back to square 1. I reread what I wrote above, and I am surprised to see that I had the courage to believe what I said. And I still believe those things. I still have to have faith that this love is worth pursuing. I have to believe that this is my destiny, and that every life is filled with difficult choices. I have to believe that my fate is set, and that we all just serve a cause in making this happen.
Aha80–I am sorry to hear that you are going through a similar situation. It is hard. Very hard. It is lonely too. Sometimes I feel like I’m spending so much time to make all sides happy, and that I would gladly sacrifice all of my happiness for the rest of my life to make this work for both of us. It’s tough, but hang in there. Take some time, and do things in a way that is best for both of you. Feel free to respond to this post…I definitely will be prompt in getting back to you. Good luck, and best wishes.
June 28th, 2008 at 7:40 am
thank you for all of the helpful comments (B thanks everyone as well). Things are going much better between B and I. He is going to call his mother at some point this weekend. We just found out we need to move into our two bedroom apartment this weekend instead of next week so life is a little hectic (I have just been squatting at B’s because I am waiting for my full time job to start up). We found another one bedroom in our complex that is available in a few weeks, so B will be moving there. I do have more to say but it is time for me to pack and move!
June 28th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
wow aptiwl81!! that was totally incredible. thanks for writing that— i got a lot out of it!!!!!
June 29th, 2008 at 6:46 am
aptiwl81, I’m going to echo NK: that was a fantastic post. We spend a lot of time hearing about these situations from people in your girlfriend’s shoes, and hearing it from you really puts a lot into perspective. Thank you!
June 30th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Wow, aptiwl81! What an amazing well-written comment! Thanks so much for taking the time to write that.
I vote for aptiwl81’s insightful comment to be it’s own post. I think a lot of people would benefit from reading his advice and perspective on his own situation.
July 10th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
My guy’s parents and family were at first very upset that he was dating me, but over time they got over it and now people are happy for us. I have been to his parents’ house a couple of times now, and last time his mom and I played “dress up” in all her cool Indian clothes. She thinks I clean up nice.
We needed to pick out something for me to wear to the next family party, because he and I just got engaged, so now I have to go get introduced to everyone!
July 11th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Congratulations, galaxie! That’s so exciting!
July 11th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Congratulations, galaxie!
(I just responded to your post on IB, too.)
July 13th, 2008 at 6:04 am
GO GALAXIE!!! I always knew you were awesome from way back in the blog days (when you defended me..hehe)….
:):)
July 14th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I am totally excited… but I have no idea what to do next!
July 21st, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Greetings from Saigon!
Galaxie: One foot in front of the other girl, that’s how these things work.
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
I don´t know what to say… like right now I´m just getting into the whole cultural difference… and it seems overwhelming for me (I’m a dude though, so it MIGHT be different? will it be worse though?)! Cause from what I have grasped so far is that the “Dad” seems like the lesser of two evils (no pun intended)… or is it like in western cultures? Like I’m gonna get chased down by some angry dogs while I’m getting thrown out of the house?
August 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Hi Denis! We all eagerly await Gori’s return…but she is very busy.
I would dare to say, in general, if as a guy you are the American in the relationship it is generally easier. In traditional Indian familes, there tends to be more expectations for DIL’s to carry on many things the family has done for centuries. However, I’m not saying white dudes are going to have it easy with more traditional families…
A big thing is more traditional Indian parents really have no concept of dating. They do, however, understand serious commitment (engagement) much better. Odds are if the family is really traditional they simply just don’t have the frame of reference to understand your relationship even if you are very serious but not engaged. In most cases, if the family does care for their son/daughter (which, really, most Indian parents are just as loving as anyone else), if they see that engagement they come around — rather quickly. I know, totally different idea for us as Americans…but it’s not so bad. For me, not meeting the parents (and we’ve been together over a year now) has been kind of nice…ehhehe. It gave us A LOT of time to really grow together and outline what we will want for our future. So the expectations between my Indian guy and I are almost all in place…we’ve set pathways for just about anything we could encounter from his parents from them totally not accepting our potential marriage to child rearing issues…
Hang in there. It really WILL be OK! I have had extrordinarly positive interactions with many, many Indian families…and they really DO NOT mean it to feel as cruel as you may percieve…it’s just something soooo outside of their fame of reference (just like they way they were brought up to get engaged and marry traditionally is for you).
August 25th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Thank you Neo,
it just seems to me that this is quite an overwhelming thing! I have never taken much interest in the Indian culture…until I met her that is
I do have to admitt that it is quite a rude awakening for me. I’ve been reading up on many of the interracial (I HATE that word so much…) relationships and I would have never EVER guessed that there would actually be a “REAL” problem. In the US (or in any country for that matter) we might have some of the same problems. Like black and white for example… but to me it never occured that there could be an actual problem referring to the cultural background. I respect the Indian customs very much, I would even go as far as saying that they are more honorable than western ones. It just makes me sad to see that some families will put their customs over what their daughter/son wants and what would make her/him happy!
I’m looking forward to how this all turns out…
cheers Denis
August 25th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Hi Denis, and welcome! It sounds like you have a great attitude about tackling the problems that may arise even though it is understandably frustrating at times. Like NK said, it’s hard to wrap your head around the idea that the parents can’t wrap their heads around the idea of dating. This is especially true if you’ve had little to no exposure to Indian culture prior to meeting your girlfriend (I was in the same boat!). My husband’s family is not as traditional as some, but my in laws still had a semi-arranged marriage (got engaged after one supervised “date” and got married soon after that) and so they had a bit of a hard time relating to what my husband and I were doing before we got engaged — i.e., dating. However, as more and more of my husband’s cousins are dating for extended periods of time before getting engaged, his whole family is starting to “get it” and it’s really not a big deal anymore. It’s tough being the groundbreakers, but it helps everyone in the long run.
With every story I’ve heard about mixed couples, the commonality is that over time, the parents will come around. You just have to be patient and continue to be as respectful as possible to the parents and be as supportive as possible to your partner. Much luck to you both, and let us know how you’re doing!
August 25th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Hi Denis, and welcome to the site! I haven’t been posting much lately, but I think (hope?) things are finally becomming settled enough that I can start posting regularly again.
I think that intercultural relationships can be much more difficult than interracial ones, since so much of cultural is ingrained in us from a very young age. So while it can be relatively easy to get over the “otherness” of looks, it can be super hard for families (or partners in the relationship) to get over the “otherness” of culture because it isn’t right out there in the open.
Anyways, I’d love to hear more about your relationship in the future!
August 26th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Also, wanted to add that I met a very interesting American/Indian could at “My Second Indian Wedding.” The Indian husband was really quite Americanized and said to me, “I don’t get the Indian parents who move to the US and really expect their kids to NOT be Americaized in some, if not many, ways. I mean, if I moved to France I would expect my kids to have a French influence…” Just wanted to throw out some of the frustrations that Indians have themselves about what can be an overwhelmingly influential culture. I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with what he said, but, even he was frustrated and admitted to feeling stified by the culture. Where the guy I spoke with sort of rejects and has little tolerance for some of the “old ideas” I told him how R (my Indian boyfriend) kind of “works within the system” of his family culture and he is happy to be both Indian and American.
Now that being said…the honeymoon of us alone for 5 weeks looks like it’s over
. It was R’s birthday yesterday and he received, like, THIRTY PHONE CALLS from The Village!!! Um..and he’s 33 (hehhe the calls were from his whole Indian family here and abroad). I was like, DAMN! They also asked that he drive home mere hours after 24 hours of flying back to US from HK, Bejing, etc. Talk about intense… I’m thinking we might need to keep a family phone for him and on silent for most of the day and return calls the next day:). If this keeps up, I don’t know if I can deal with all the buzzing and ringing!!! 
Hummm…I actually like the idea of having a Batphone….
Stay tuned for more intercultural fun!! Hhehe
September 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Thank you all
I’m trying to see it all with humor!
I’m really glad I found this site. I have absolutly NOOOOOO exprience with the Indian culture. The best I could come up with was watching Indian movies…but for some reason I’m guessing that there will be ALOT less dancing and singing when she tells her parents she’s into a gori
The thing that always blows my mind is the underlining prejudice that is OBVIOUSLY still alive! Like NEO said, I mean if I move into a western country, how do I expect my children not to adapt and pick up on other customs. I’m all for tradition, and I find the Indian culture AMAZING (from what I have read and watched). And I understand parents that wouldn’t want their daughters, or sons for that matter, to sleep around etc… I think I wouldn’t act much different concerning my future children. But I can’t see how they wouldn’t accept a serious relationship…
I think I might not understand the impact of the whole thing. Can someone answer me one question though?
Am I worse off? Is it better to date the daughter or the son?
Other than that, I really find the story gripping that Gori has told us. Keep it coming! U guess we’re all sitting in the same boat aren’t we?!
SO cheers to all of you! And the best to come!
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am
Denis, I think it can go either way. I’ve heard just as many stories of Indian daughters having problems as Indian sons having problems. And, the paths are pretty much the same: either eventual acceptance or disownment (although eventual acceptance is more common).
The main problem is that although you, your girlfriend, and other Americans see you guys as being in a serious relationship, Indian parents don’t think a relationship is serious until you are engaged or in some cases, married. If the official commitment is not there, then in their eyes, you are not serious. This is why a lot of couples wait to tell the Indian parents until they are actually engaged or very close to being engaged. Most Indian parents did not date, nor do they know anyone who dated, so they have no personal frame of reference for what you’re doing. Most of them met their spouse once, maybe twice before getting engaged, and then they were married very soon after. My in-laws, as open-minded as they are, asked my husband once while we were dating, “What is it that you and D do together?” When my husband responded that we hang out and talk, and go to dinner/movies/mini-golf/etc. (didn’t want to tell them what we were actually doing, hahaha
), their response was “Then why is she your girlfriend and not just a friend? Isn’t that what you do with your friends?” No matter what you do to explain it, they’re just not going to get it until you get to the point in your relationship that they understand, i.e., engagement. Sorry to be such a downer, but really all there is to do is be patient.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Thanks D
actually I don’t even think I’ve fully explained the situation! I’m American but live in Germany right now! She’s English and lives…guess…yes in England. We met about a year ago and have gotten along so well. We’ve seen each other on holiday (me visiting, her visiting (but having to lie to her parents of course))… I’m going off to study in England next August… yes this is my life! So for NOW I don’t have to worry about the “in-laws”. I know this sounds kinda wierd in a way. But I never met someone like her before. And I believe that in the end everything will work out, and so does she. I’m 23 right now she is 25 (so hey, another problem right:-))…
I don’t think there’s really a reason to judge agewise or something like that right?
@D: That question “why isn’t she just a friend then” made me laugh…at first. Then I thought about it, and it seems such a LOGICAL question. I don’t think Indian parents take into consideration that their son/daughter might be sexually active! Am I correct with this assumption?
I cannot BELIEVE how ignorant I was concerning other cultures. Seeing as India hast 5x as many people living there in comparison to the US, I am actually more than mad at myself that I don’t seem to know anything about this country.
Can anyone maybe give me some, you know? Help?! Websites, movies, books etc… she’s from Gujarat and she’s Hindu if that helps
Thank you
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 am
Denis you ask a good question and while I agree it can be tough for both Indian daughters and sons, and maybe I am biased, but I feel on a whole it is harder for sons to break the mold. Why? I think there are sooo many more expectations for the son in Indian culture. Traditionally, the son’s family takes in his bride and makes her a part if HIS family. The oldest son is expected to take care of the parents when they are older and even sometimes the Indian mom remains “matriarch” of her son’s life and family. Now that is super hardcore traditional (heh hem that is my man’s family
)…but that ever watered down through westernization holds a lot of weight, I think.
Yea…R and I are at a kind of weird point because we are by no means ready to get engaged any time very soon, but I’m really starting to feel left out of family functions and such. I feel I’ve put a lot of commitment into our relationship over the past year (plus!!) I’m starting to feel snubbed. But, on the other hand, if I meet them now maybe it will open up all the family drama (for real) and frankly I just blissfully enjoy him so much I’m hesitant to do this…
Like a lot of this intercultural stuff, you sometimes feel kind of squeezed or in a double-bind I’ve found. You want all parties to be satisified…but I doubt I’m ever going to satisfy his parents (or maybe even him) in a way that rings most “traditionally true.” So it’s tough, but ya hang in there for the right person I suppose
…
September 3rd, 2008 at 2:59 pm
NK wrote:
[but I doubt I’m ever going to satisfy his parents (or maybe even him) in a way that rings most “traditionally true.”]
A word of unsolicited advice, don’t beat yourself up. No one – not American, not Indian, not Hindu, not his own caste, not his own “cousin”
– no one can ever satisfy an Indian mom. I mean, Indian moms make Jewish moms look like domesticated creatures. 
It has nothing to do with multiculturalism. It has to do with a mother’s loss of control with regard to her son. A lot of moms cannot deal with it. The target of this frustration then becomes the immediate reasons for their son’s “lack of obedience” to their mom’s established framework. The reason could be a woman, a Nintendo game, or a male buddy (“BEER? Shiva, Shiva. Your friend is a BAD man!”).
It has got nothing to do with you. One should never have to change to live up to someone’s flawed expectations.
September 4th, 2008 at 9:25 am
quizman!!! Thank you! You are so, super smart. Sigh. You’re probably right…I’m kind of a goody-goody at heart and I do like to please. But I think I’m going to have to just let some of that go to hold on to my sanity. Thanks again for that!
September 4th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I love the comment about the jewish moms! But truthfully I think that pretty much sums it up doesn’t it?!
September 4th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Jbf, I can totally understand what you are going through.
This is a wonderful blog. This section helped me to know that I am not alone in this. I have a similiar story as as well. I am a Jamaican mixed black (my mom) and Indian (my father is of East Indian decent).
I have a Punjabi Sikh guy who wants to marry me and I am seeing the same issues. His family gives him alot of heart ache. Many of them dont even know about me.
Many people have told me that if I was white then I would more accepted. Family is really important to me and because of the madness I think I have started to just push him away because I think it was be for his own good. He lets me know thats the wrong thing to do, because if I stood by him he can face them. There has never been a interracial marriage in his family. His family are prominent people. His mom freaked out at him when he cut his hair and stop wearing his headwear (I forgot the name of it). I cant imagine what they are going to do when they find out about me. A few of his cousins havent been accepting.
He loves Jamaican culture and even worked there for a few years. He is everything Jamaican. Some of his cousins even do business in Jamaica and Trinidad. One cousin I talk to often, amazing guy.
I too is in love with Indian culture, I know how to cook the food, wrap the sari, whatever.
I am still confused because I dont want to wreck his family. He constantly tells me not to worry about that just stand by him. We are good friends and tell him lets just keep it that way for his sake…its a heartache!
September 4th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Denis,
While thats true what others said about the “dating” aspect that is not the only, or even the main, resistance Indian parents tend to have.
Its more that their first order of business isnt “who will my kid be most in love with” but more in practicalities and what is best for their future/the family, and they dont see that being an American(British, etc), most of the time. I think they truly feel their kid will be better suited with someone of their own culture, and it would also be easier on the parents in multiple ways.
As a parent, and a strict one, I can understand partly where they are coming from. It totally would stink to raise your kid so carefully and feel like they are dropping everything that is important to you. However this is usually just an initial shock that they need to get over and begin to see you for your good qualities and understand that it wont rip their daughter/son away from them.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:50 am
I watched “East is East” today… does anybody but me find this movie scary instead of funny? Or is this more a Muslim way of life rather then a Hindu?
October 16th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I had similar situations – so we moved to another state and just got married.
After a year of emotional blackmail for ignoring everyone – we are one big happy family.
The fact is all this emotional blackmail will continue till you two show the outcome is not going to change.
December 31st, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Reply to Siesta
Indian culture has a strong preference for fair skin
Families doing artificial insemination import European semen.
There was an article in outlookindia.com about this, a few weeks ago
Conversely black cheerleaders were booed during cricket games
Third rate white models make it big in bollywood
In India, in most cases, any sikh or hindu marrying a local xtian will be outcasted, whereas if they marry a white xtian it may be barely tolerated
In the US, most parents tell their kids
‘Dont bring home a black or a muslim’
January 18th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
didnt read these long long comments but the story is kinda sad to me i think B should spend some time with his family and try to be a bit religious if his wife is supporting him and participating i think that would help a lot ……….. just an opinion…….. i told me parents that i woudnt marry in my family like cousinsn etc my mother was okay but my dad didnt give a good response i didnt tell him that i will be marrying a `non brown`lady but i dont want to marry in my dads big family…… though i am young and not reached marriage age but i dont want my family to fix or chose a mate for me coz i have my own image of what kinda person i want but this is wrong what desi parents do they want to chose a mate for their kids which is not right
January 31st, 2009 at 7:10 pm
The other thread said to bring comments here. However, didn't read that til I already posted there, therefore I copied and pasted here. So this comment will appear twice on your blog, in 2 different place. It's addressed to “Travelergal” regarding her Bihari beau and his family.
Did she ever come back to update on her situation?
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Traverlergal, questions for you;
1. Do you and your boyfriend plan to marry? I'm asking you this because if not, there was really no need for him to tell his parents about you OR he could've just said, “I'm dating her but we are not serious”.
Your boyfriend comes from the state of Bihar. I've been there. It's very traditional. Even other Indians refer to the state as “backwards”. I have seen young men from that state and surrounding states become OBSESSED with their first girlfriends. You see, when you are raised in an environment and culture where association with members of the opposite sex who are not related to you is limited and frowned upon, you often end up “falling in love” to the first woman who shows you a little attention.
This phenomena has happened to several of my non-Indian white friends when they have gone to India. They befriend local young men and those men “fall in love” and some become obsessed. Therefore, I understand what his family is talking about when they say, “infatuation”. Indian guys, because of their limited exposure to women, often times do not know what “love” is and they start declaring their “undying love” to a girl from a very early point. They are overcome with the flood of endorphins in their brain that they experience from receiving attention from a woman.
2. I understand their concern about divorce. I have more than a few friends who have married Indian men and divorced them. Some of these friends had even lived in India for considerable amount of time and adopted various aspects of the culture, especially the religiosity. However, being married to an Indian is an entirely different cricket match.
3. Does your boyfriend plan to move back to India some day and live there? Did you know that in India, more often than a wife lives with her in-laws and is expected to “serve” them, even if she has a job/career? Have you discussed with your boyfriend your future if you marry as in where you both will live? What if he expects you to live in India but what if upon going there you hate it? How would you feel about living in the same house as your in-laws?
You see, there are so many things to consider before getting seriously involved with an India guy. Even women who have immersed themselves in India culture for decades had problems when they married Indian men. Despite sharing core values like religion/spirituality, the divide between east and west on even a subconscious level was so vast that they had to split.
Also, gender roles are very defined in India. Despite the rise in career women, the general mentality regarding a woman and her freedom to move about as she pleases and allocate her time as she pleases, that's all still stuck in a medieval mindset.
These are VERY REAL concerns if you plan to marry a man from Bihar.
January 31st, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Actually, you commented at the right place originally – this is post regarding Jbf's comment, which she first left at the other post. I'm going to delete this comment, if you don't mind, and leave the one you left first. In the future, if you sign up with the Disqus system (it's quite easy), then you'll be able to delete & edit posts yourself.
March 4th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
hi im a sikh girl and have been going out with my white bf for 3yrs. i've always known my parents would disapprove…they've always said if i bought anyone but a sikh guy home they would want nothing to do with me and the whole family would be disappointed. my fear and guilt have meant that more and more recently i haven't been happy in my relationship until a few weeks ago when i decided to end it. but now i'm regretting it and don't know what to do!!! he was a wonderful guy who loved me and excepted me completely but because of the guilt and loyalty i feel towards my family i feel i have lost the only man i will ever be happy with.
reading all the above comments and posts i realise i'm not alone and that there are others who go through this but sometimes it feels so lonely. i was just wondering how people come up with the courage to tell their parents in the first place and how do you handle the guilt?!?
March 4th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Hi AishaS,
I know I've been writing about the difficulties my fiance is having with his family, however, I haven't written about my own issues. My family was NOT an easy sale on this relationship. Granted, I didn't get the opposition that my fiance is getting, but man it was close sometimes.
During those times, I always tried to be sure that I spoke to my parents as an adult. Respectfully but firmly. I did my research beforehand and knew what their concerns might be and was ready with answers for them. But there are just going to be times when nothing you can say is going to make them feel better…and then you have to give it time. Patience is a huge ally here.
I also kept telling myself, that my parents loved me and that this was the reason behind their behavior.
Also, you need to look at this from a different perspective. Part of the problem is that a part of you feels that your relationship with your boyfriend was wrong. Not because you guys weren't good together, but because of what your family expected from you with regards to marriage. You knew they wouldn't like it, so dating him therefore made you feel all icky and guilty and just plain bad. Now you are trying to find a way around it but that's going to be pretty hard to do since it's a learned behavior.
Einstein once said “We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” This essentially means you need to tackle this problem in a different way. There are so many different ways, but the best advice I can give to you is to apply that which you know best.
What is it that you are good at? I mean, really good at? Now, let’s say you are so good at it and love it so much, it’s a respectable living AND you make very good money from it…there is no reason in the world why you cannot do this as a living. But your parents have never heard of it or if they have it’s been second hand and all bad and they don’t want you to do it. Plain and simple, they say NO. Ask yourself this, are you going to give it up, work doing something you hate all your life? Or are you going to do your best to help them understand what it is you do, show them it’s good values and help them grow…giving them the patience to come to terms with it?
I tackled my problem with my parents and with my own feelings of guilt from that perspective. And then I presented it to my parents in a way that THEY could understand. Maybe not agree with, but at least understand…and that is the first step.
Good luck, know you aren’t alone, we are all here….right beside you and experiencing similar feelings. >:D<
March 4th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
I was in an inter-racial relationship once and I knew my parents would disinherit me if they knew so I never let them know. I was an adult and out of their house by the time it happened so I didn't have to sneak around.
March 5th, 2009 at 6:28 am
thanx for your post auroracoda…thats exactly how i feel….like im doing something bad and wrong which is ruining a relationship that would otherwise be totally fine!! i do understand their concerns fitting into another culture is hard….not so much for me cos i was born and raised in england so i already live in both the western and eastern worlds but for him it would be difficult and i see why my parents would want to spare us both that. at the moment i'm at uni so the sneaking around isn't too bad but i'll be moving home in a few months while saving money for my own place and thats when it'll get difficult as we'll be living a couple of hours apart….which is why im now feeling i need to make some serious decisions about where the relationship is going!
i was reading on another site that people find it is only the older generations that have a problem with intercultural relationships but i've found that the younger generation do to…..my sister refuses to acknowledge him or the relationship and i've found this with a couple of cousins i've told aswell! i completely expect resistance from the older generation but i thought the younger people would be more open minded! i think with my sister its the fear of what this will do to the family which i understand. i feel i have to choose one or the other…..family or love!?!
March 5th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Hi AishaS,
Family or Love. Hateful three words isn’t it? Especially when it should be Family and Love.
I too used to think opposition only came from the older generation, until I did further research on the topic. There are people in the older generation that don’t have any issues with an Intercultural Relationship just as there are people in our own generation that do have issues with it. I was left sitting back in my chair and saying…”What the HECK??”
What it comes down to is this…there isn’t any hard and fast rule saying who will like it and who won’t.
I guess all I can tell you is my own opinion on this topic. Everybody’s got to have an opinion right??? Hehehe
My feelings is this, if my family and friends truly love me and want what’s best for me, they will eventually accept what my decisions in life are. No matter what, I will lead my own life, taking into consideration their advice and guidance, but essentially they raised me to be the person that I am. They did not raise me to be mini versions of themselves, doomed to a life of living out their lives. I have a responsibility to them yes, but that responsibility is solely that I should live to the best of my ability, being good and helpful to all those around me. It does not mean that I should let go of who I am merely to conform to their wishes, to society’s or anyone else’s.
So which do you choose? Who said you are making a choice between them by following your heart? You are being with the person whom you love and you feel is right for you. You are a product of your parents love and guidance and therefore are only doing what they taught you to do….to be the WHOLE Aisha. If you decide to continue with your relationship, be open and honest about it with everyone, continue to keep an open communication with everyone no matter how they behave and remember that “this too shall pass”. If they choose to distance themselves from you, it will be THEIR choice and not yours.
Apna khayal rakhna yaar.
~Auroracoda
March 5th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Hi AishaS,
I forgot to mention one other thing….you said that you knew that living in or with an eastern influence would be difficult for your boyfriend.
It would be important to keep in mind at this point that your parents think they know what's best for you and may try to push you into a life you do not want. Acting on someone elses' behalf just because you think you know what's best without taking their wishes into a sincere consideration is wrong.
Only you know your heart and only your boyfriend knows what he's capable of.
March 6th, 2009 at 12:10 am
I'm deleting this comment, as I created a post on Aisha's request for advice, but I've copied over a version of it & the rest of your comments to the post.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
hi i have been in an interracial reltionship for 5 months now, i am bristish white and he is british asian, we are both 17 and his parents are a nightmare. i am truly stuck and way in over my head, reading these stories of success make me feel so sad that i am just so lost and dont see how things can turn out for the best, but i love him, i seriously do and i am wiling to make this work.
a few months ago i actually started a blog, kinda in the same way when you get bullied you are always told to write everything down, so that is what i am doing. http://achespainsandlove.blogspot.com/
i hate that i have to give my realtionship a name and a truly stuck, any ideas on what i can do now? at this age?
October 1st, 2009 at 3:53 am
Does anyone have aptiwl81’s email address? I am so moved by his posting. I am going through the exact same situation except my parents found out about my Indian boyfriend (I am Chinese) on the DAY of my graduation via a photo that was taken of us in my apartment. aptiwl81, where are you?!?! Help!
November 6th, 2009 at 11:53 am
I just came across this post from over a year ago and wanted to post the outcome of my situation. We ended up breaking up last September. We attended a wedding of another interacial couple (my very close friends) and seeing the love they had for each other and the acceptance of each other families (despite the bumps they had along the way) made it all too clear to me that I would never have that same situation and that ultamately he was not the person for me to marry. I need someone who is a bit more bold and can express thier thoughts and feelings, especially to navigate through the intercultural adventures. The amount I learned and grew from this situation is tremendous and I wouldn’t change it. In the end, for me a weight was lifted and I am quite happy now and enjoying life and figuring out what it is I want. I wish you all the very best and I do want to point out the one common theme that i see in all these posts… that the couples are completely devoted to each other and the love they have for each other is enough for them to make it through. Best of luck to everyone.
November 16th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I am so sorry to hear that. I am sure that things will work out for the best. Good luck and best wishes to you.
December 5th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Hi,
I am a Russian married to an Indian. We have settled in Bangalore, South India. I have been living in India for the past 29 years or so. My hubby is a professor at an engineering college. We have a daughter who is 28 and is currently dating a young man. He is really a good guy and we are happy for her.
I am basically an Indologist, I am fluent in Hindi and know a good deal about the Indian culture. What I basically want to say is: if both of you love each other and are serious about each other, all the issues can be sorted out. There is no need to sacrifice and adopt the culture with which you may not be very comfortable. It is just not worth it. You’ve got to discuss all such things among yourselves and reach an understanding.
We, for example, have decided not to impose our culture, habits, way of living or religion on each other. I do not wear saris, I tried in the beginning, but stoppped because of that attitude on behalf of some Indians, who tried to convey that “our culture and our clothes are good or superior and yours are bad, or immoral, or … whatever.” My daughter, though, wears saris sometimes, she also wears mini-skirts. Her life – her choice. As for the in-laws, well, I respect them because they are my hubby’s parents or relatives. But they (they are no longer living) had to accept me as I am. If they did not like certain things about me … well, I can’t help it.
It is true, in India they expect daughter-in-law to be servile and obedient, and they do not bother to know how she might feel about it. Therefore, I would not recommend you to live together with the in-laws. Meet them frequently, help them financially by all means, but do not stay under the same roof. I am on good terms with my remaining in-laws, we do meet sometimes, but I will not like to stay at their place more than a day, because of the differences in our way of living. It’s fine.
You can live fairly well in India, if you are in a big cosmopolitan city and have set your independent household. In Bangalore, my daughter was raised the same way as she would have been in Russia. There were no cultural restrictions whatsoever: she could go to pubs, discoes,, outings with friends. India is changing, but the change is slow in the rural or less develped areas.
Wish you all the best,
Nats
December 5th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Natalia, what do you mean you are an Indologist? Do you work as an academic studying India – or is just that you are “fluent in Hindi and know a good deal about the Indian culture”? If it’s the second, then that doesn’t make you an Indologist – anymore than it makes every Hindi-speaking Indian an Indologist.
Regarding your points – well, the first half I largely agree with. I think it’s important to discuss the role your two cultures will play in your relationships, and come to an agreement. However, I strongly disagree with your suggestions regarding in-laws. Perhaps your in-laws expect their DIL to be servile & obedient, do not care about how you feel, and would not be comfortable to live with – but that is certainly not true for all in-laws, including mine. They are wonderful kind people who do not expect more out of their DILs than they do of their daughter or their sons.
January 9th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Background:
In 2002 L, his 4 year old brother and parents moved to Texas from Hyderabad India to fulfill his dad’s aspirations of living the “American dream” in the United States. They landed in Texas because they had a small amount of family in that area and felt that there would be the necessary support system. Immediately L started college during the day and working overnight to help support the family. After four years he graduated and accepted a position in another Texas city so off they went. L’s dad was able to find a good job as well and both worked to support his mom and brother. After that year L began to venture out and make new friends, including his future girlfriend. The relationship started off as friends and slowly began to grow into a loving relationship which will be explained later. During this time his dad kept working, his little brother started public school and his mom began her descent into loneliness and possibly depression over the move from India and lack of emotional support for her. In India she was a successful Pharmacist and even was considered the “bread winner” for a portion of her career. She wanted to support her husband’s desire to move to the US and was convinced she would be able to continue her career once they arrived. Unfortunately she never had any formal English language training so it came as a much unexpected shock that she could not pass the necessary exams in the US to continue to practice as a Pharmacist. After multiple failed attempts she gave up and decided to commit herself to looking after the household and raising her two sons. Years later, she finds herself home alone most of the time because her eldest son works full time and has friends and a girlfriend, her husband works over an hour away so spends most of his day at work and commuting and her youngest has just entered middle school and his finding his way through his preteen years playing sports and spending time with his many friends at their homes, instead of his. Now that you have an understanding of this family’s history, here is our story from our individual perspectives…
From L’s perspective:
So here is a complicated scenario and would like to see what you all’s input is. I am South Indian (Telugu) and girlfriend is from Texas, white. We have been dating for almost two years. I am very close to my mom, and have considered her my best friend and I would almost tell her everything and anything. I knew she will be upset outrageously if I told her that I was dating a white girl. But I still told her three month into dating, and she reacted the way I expected. And my dad was also completely against it. She pushed that there is no way it’s going to work told me we had to break up, no exception. I really love my girl friend so I kept seeing her secretly. I would tell my mom that I was going out with my friends or whatever and I would go out with gf. Last week she confronted me and asked me if I was still seeing the girl. I told her the truth that I was seeing her and I want her to meet my gf, this way she can understand why she is so special to me. But my mom is completely against meeting her and just tells me every second she gets to break it up and not to go out with her. My girlfriend is very frustrated as well and is ready to do whatever it takes to convince my mom. As an example of this, when I confessed everything that my mom last week she told me to have my gf write her a letter explaining her intentions which my gf immediately did but now my mom is mad because she thinks it was too blunt and doesn’t care what my gf’s intentions are we have to break up. My mom had said she needed more time but would be open to meeting her someday but now she is saying she is not even open to meet her at all. Every hour at home is a living hell. Every time I go out, even just to the grocery store, she keeps calling every 20 min and tells me that I need to come back home and not see my girlfriend. I am really not sure what to do and what the solution is. One of my mom concerns is that my gf comes from a divorced family and she thinks for the same reason we will end up in divorce. But I keep telling her just because her parents are divorced we won’t end up the same way. She also has no idea how hard my gf has worked to have an accomplished life and works harder than anyone I’ve ever known to be self sufficient and is just an amazing person. I do understand she is looking for my future but for some reason she fails to understand that I have found true happiness and we will be together no matter what. But I love my family and believe it is my responsibility to take care of them and provide for them and know my gf would be a great addition to us as a whole, not just me. How can I blend this all together and allow my parents, especially my mom, to see the good in this?
From C’s perspective:
Eleanor Roosevelt once said “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.” I have always been a dreamer and I’ve absolutely always believed that my dreams would come true. Some would say I’ve had a challenging life…the daughter of divorced parents who barely got along; we often did not have money to buy groceries or new shoes to start the school year. Neither of my parents have high school or college diplomas hanging on their walls but both have always had a fierce determination and a slight flare for the dramatics. I have a twin sister who has a degree in art and spends her days tutoring middle school and high school kids in math and her nights exploring her passion for belly dancing. My oldest sister is a wife and mother of two young boys and spends her days as a homemaker. I have always been the independent type. When I came home one sunny august day in high school and told my mom I had signed up to participate in the December Honolulu Marathon in Oahu in support of a local youth organization, she told me not to get my hopes up because we didn’t have the money for such things. Within two months I had raised $3,000 for the charity and convinced American Airlines to donate my airfare and cover my hotel accommodations for six days. I went to, and graduated from my top university pick, student loans in tow. And now, by the age of 25 I am a director over a multi-million dollar resort living the dreams I always worked towards. To add to that I have found the man who makes my days more exciting then I ever thought possible. When I have worked 80 hours in five days and have no groceries at home, he is the one to meet me at my door with take out so I don’t even have to think about what to eat. He has taught me a level of patience and understanding that I had no idea I possessed. Together we have traveled (secretly) to various parts of the world that neither of us have ever had the opportunity to explore. Not a day goes by that we aren’t able to learn and teach each other new things. For two years I have struggled desperately to understand his family and piece together the puzzle of how we can make this work. He has met all of my family and even (secretly) spend Christmas with my entire family, including grandparents, aunts and uncles and all. I have met his little brother and we try to take him out at least once a month so he can get more comfortable with me. I’ve been to every little league football game, basketball game, band concert and parents night he had for the past two years…always sitting on the other side of the room so his parents won’t see me. About a week ago L’s mom came to him and asked for the truth. He spilled his heart out to her and told her everything, there were tears, heated moments and the sweetest moments they have shared as mother and son. She did express that she was not comfortable with the situation and felt that it would cause them to be an embarrassment to their family back in India. But, she also said she understands that times are changing here, and back in India so maybe, with time, she would be more understanding and open to the idea of meeting me. She also told him that she needed to know from me, in my own words, what my intentions with him are because she has heard terrible stories of white girls using men for money and pressing false charges on them and all other manner of things. So I did just that…considering the obvious language barrier I tried to make it short and sweet. Three days later he handed his mom the card and went off to work. By the time he got home from work she was furious and literally yelling that she couldn’t do this and we had to break up immediately. He asked her what had happened and she told him the card was not personal enough and was too blunt. Apparently in the midst of translating it some of the phrases didn’t translate as well as expected and even though we still don’t know the specifics…she is a brick wall. For the past 48 hours she has turned the family upside down making her youngest son do nothing but sit in his room and study, not allowing him to attend planned activities with his friends this weekend. And is keeping a very close eye on L to such an extent that even when he left to go to the store she called him constantly tell him to swear on her mother’s life that he would never see me again, which he told her no. She is threatening to put the house up for sale and move the family to another city. Even though we went through these three months into the relationship I think we can both agree that we didn’t see this one coming. We thought time heals all wounds and that we are both good people and that somehow it would all just be OK. How do we make this work…It has been thrown out there that I just either stop by their house and ask to speak with her or maybe just introduce myself at the next basketball game. I don’t know what to do. I do know that the longer she sits in that house without actually meeting me and starting that process she is only going to think more about the situation and convince herself of the worst. In my mind there is no way we can make forward progress without the key players at least having face time. Any advice and insight would be so very helpful…
January 21st, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Lanny, I encourage readers looking for feedback on their specific problems to create a post in the forums.
January 21st, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Yeah, my girl friend posted on there. I did it on here by mistake. Thanks for hosting such an awesome blog
January 21st, 2010 at 5:12 pm
I’m glad you like it! Sorry that I haven’t gotten ’round to checking out the latest posts in the forums yet – we had a “minor” on-going crisis at work the past few weeks.
January 11th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Indian parents recently from India have the following objections to American women
Christianity
Beef-eating
Older woman
Woman already with kids
Fear of divorce and alimony
Find out what her main objection is and see
if that can be tackled