In this guest post, NeoKalypso of Doings & Undoings writes about her understanding of “Indian-ness.”
“You are too prejudiced. You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Do you not think that there are things which you cannot understand, and yet which are? That some people see things that others cannot? … There are always mysteries in life.” – Abraham Van Helsing, metaphysician and scientist from Bram Stoker’s Dracula
I knew my Indian boyfriend was pretty down with his culture, but after meeting his brother-in-law I just looked at R amusedly and said, “Wow. He’s sooo Indian.” R knew exactly what I meant, smiled and said, “Oh, he totally is. You should see him in India. He’s absolutely in his element.”
Later I will unpack this exchange for Gori Girl readers. But first, some background. I’m a white American woman and my R is from a very traditional, South Indian (Telugu) family. Of the Indian families I have had the pleasure of knowing, I feel at liberty to say R’s is the “most hardcore” (i.e. traditional) I’ve known. 
For example, out of his 200 family members, only one ventured outside of Telugu culture to marry…a Gujarati. R’s little niece and nephew speak Telugu. His mom, pop, sister, brother-in-law, and their kids have often lived in the same house, sharing family responsibilities (which is very common for more traditional families). It has worked well for them.
After spending his first year of life in India, R would travel back almost every year for weeks, sometimes months, as a kid. As an adult he makes it to India at least once every 2-3 years. He has vivid memories of falling violently ill with Hepatitis A as a kid, has witnessed what can be the stifling effects of “the Indian mob”, and struggles to reconcile with the fact that his family members back home do not have the same opportunities he has in America. On a lighter note, he’s suffered through more painful Telugu movies than he can count. He’s also shared a meal with 4,000 people on his sister’s wedding day and considers Indian celebrations to be some of the most festive and vibrant in the world. He’s taken his non-Indian friends to India and enthusiastically introduced them to a whole new world. In India, R gets to hang out and nibble on the best food on the planet (ok, my bias), all day long. And though it’s hard to describe, he slips into an overall slower, more contemplative and thoughtful pace when he’s there. Over the years he has experienced India at its worst and at its best.
Despite all this, R’s more traditional cousins still say he has always “been a little different”. R also really appreciates the United States for the education he has received, the foods from all over the world found here, American music from all nooks and crannies, and well… if I talk about his Marvel comic book fetish he might kill me. Despite all I have listed about his experiences with India and the United States, I’m not sure I have pinpointed what makes him Indian as well as American quite yet.
R’s brother-in-law
AB, R’s brother-in-law, got married the traditional, arranged way. He lives with R’s family, is Hindu, and has of one of the more “typical” Indian professions. Perhaps some of these things somehow affect his “Oh so Indianness” as I initially described. But then again… not exactly. I knew that he did the arranged marriage, did the joint-family stuff before I met him. It might sound funny, but it only occurred to me to state “He’s soooo Indian” after having a drink and conversation with him.
This will be hard to do… but I’m going to try to describe what I think a small part of being Indian is all about. AB has a really chill yet solid way about him. The way he sits, even crosses his legs, puts his hand on his chin, and sort of looks, listens and doesn’t get frazzled about anything at all reminds me so much of my friends in India. It feels very grounding and comforting to be around these sorts of people. AB is someone who seems to really have assumed his traditional (dharmic) role that his family expected of him. However, he doesn’t strike me as a man who has apathy for his choices or a lack of personal agency.
An American may ask, “How do you just marry someone you don’t know? How do you live under your in-laws roof and rules? How do you just sacrifice everything you may want for the wishes (of what seems to be) everyone else? Why don’t you grow a pair and do what you want for yourself?” To this, AB might just shrug, smile a bit wryly, and proceed to look right through the inquisitive American. To AB these questions are not a part of the traditional Indian worldview. They are not a part of his worldview.
Perhaps at some point AB did entertain more individualist notions? Sometimes I think Americans find comfort in this notion, but I get that vibe that he is truly content with his life. He is someone who strikes me as exceptionally kind, and exudes an unyielding understanding for those who don’t even see the way he does. With a serene, uncanny, yet humble confidence he sort of communicates: “it is what it is and I unequivocally accept life in this way.” I mean, how many Americans can say that?
Most of the traditional, conservative Americans I know tend to be pretty set in a certain type of script—much like AB, as he is more conservative and traditional in his respective culture. However, the distinct difference I have noted in someone like AB is his ability to listen, absorb alternatives, and accept difference without judgment. Even AB’s mother-in-law (R’s mom) who is an ultra conservative Indian has said she has no personal problem with American culture, it’s just that she has a really hard time understanding and wrapping her mind around it given where she has come from. In my experience, I have met very few (if any) highly conservative, traditional Americans who exhibit the same Indian-cool in expressing their views and living their values.
I should also note that AB has an absolutely gorgeous, understanding, regal (and yes, oh so Indian) wife, the most adorable, good-natured kids you’ve even met, and very supportive in-laws. Following the traditions laid out centuries before his time worked very well for him.
Back to R
R is a lot like AB in terms of Indianness… but not completely. I think what makes R a “little different,” as his cousins say, is that he has lived most of his life in the U.S. However, many NRIs (non-resident Indians) still choose to go the traditional route just like AB did. I think somehow, for most of R’s life, he has had a little American pilot light on. He was always curious: he wanted to try dating, perhaps imagined more of a nuclear style family, wanted to further explore his quirky, off-beat tastes, and for lack of a better term, was intrigued with parts of an American, “individualist” lifestyle. But R never really felt he had a true opportunity to do these things given what he was raised to believe, what he saw directly modeled around him, and perhaps given the dharmic ideas his parents thought (and he sometimes thought) he had to follow. Unlike AB, following all the Indian ways never really resulted in happiness or contentment for R.
R tried the traditional route with a few arranged engagements, but it didn’t work for him. He also tried doing things the “American” way as well. R dated “Western style” for a while, but no one he met really inspired him to pursue anything more serious. So, because he hadn’t found anyone special through dating, he saw no need to disrupt his incredibly important and dear family life with such information.
Me and R, R and me
As R and I grew in our relationship, and partly because of my patience and understanding of his Indianness, he felt confident I was someone he could take that huge leap, that huge risk with his parents for. As he grew to trust me more and more, he knew he had a safety net, a support system, and someone who would unconditionally love him if he further explored the uncharted, sometimes uncertain territories intrinsic to the dating/American relationship process. This was also a process his parents and family would have a hard time understanding. However, as R finally found someone worth pursuing, he decided to take that risk and let his parents know he was dating someone non-Indian and more importantly, someone who made him truly happy.
Another one of the main reasons R was willing to take a risk, a leap with me, is that he knew I got it.Before knowing him I had traveled India for a month, had many Indian friends, went crazy about the food, and had an overall, general fascination with Indian culture. However, these things are not why I get it – instead:
- I get it because I am genuinely open to difference, exploring it, and am not quick to judge.
- I get it because I am willing to be patient and understanding of his family’s process of accepting me.
- I get it because I realize my culture doesn’t hold all the answers and am curious about what others may have to teach me.
R knew he wouldn’t have to totally become an individualist, an American in all ways to be with me—he knew he could be both Indian and American. I think R’s choice to be with someone like me is yet another example of his Indianness.
Now, before I get too far ahead of myself, I want to make clear that R has not and will not abandon the ways in which he is “Oh so Indian” as we progress in our relationship. AB and R’s Indianness has sure turned my American thinking upside down… and it has been an amazing ride. I expect to learn more and keep incorporating this Indianness into our lives. A lot of what attracted me to R in the first place was his calm, his humility, unbelievable work ethic, and uncanny acceptance of life the way it is. I mean, perhaps I could have found all these things in a white guy—but I never did. I have, however, felt overwhelmed with this strange and wonderful vibe that many of my Indian friends seem to give off.
One of my great friends of a decade, J, was born in India and moved to the States when he was a toddler. Though he has a pretty traditional family, he chooses to embrace individualism and American life in all ways. He dates, is still close with his family, loves basketball, but to be frank, is basically just like a nice white dude at heart. You could put the guy in a dhoti, shove curry down his throat, and blare Hindi music around him and he’s still be that coconut down the street (brown on the outside, white on the inside). So obviously, Indianness isn’t all about that stuff. J chuckles when I light-heartedly call him a coconut and razz him for not being more “Indian.” He knows I’m right! He says I am more Indian than him! Though I love J as a friend, I’ve never had a spark for him beyond his handsome brown skin. I guess I just prefer that hard to pinpoint Indianness far too much—so sue me.
Truth is, I’m not sure if I could ever be with anyone who’s 100% “Soooo Indian” either. I don’t fully get it—the worldview, the mindset—and I doubt I ever truly can. I do have a deep appreciation for it though. At the same time, I have found myself a little bored when dating on the other end of the spectrum: more typical, American men. What can I say: I do love a little difference, a little flava, and a little spark in my life. I suppose this can come in many forms, from people of all different places, but all I know is that I’m glad I found all these things in R.
Though R and I continually have things to work out considering the cultural divide, his traditional family, and parts of his Indianness I simply don’t (or won’t ever probably) get, we both feel we have a darn good shot at happiness given our goals, desires, and how well we fit together. I’m not saying things won’t get tough and difficult for me to understand, in fact I think they will, but I’ll be darned if I’m going into this with a dark and unhopeful attitude. Do you not think that there are things which you cannot understand, and yet which are? At the very least, R is a guy worth all my hopes, dreams, and risks in moving forward.
And lastly, I’d like to confess that by no means am I an expert on what Indianness is. All I really have to go on are my many impressions and hunches. It’s a tough thing, if not an impossible thing, especially for me – a Westerner – to define. Like so many wonderful and inexplicable things in life, I can’t always articulate what it is but I know it when I see it, when I feel it, and when I experience it. When I came back from a month in India, I felt an aching sadness that I had never felt before. India perplexed me as I felt I had loved, loathed, and then longed for it again, all at once. When someone asked me what I missed most about the place, the first thing I said was, “I miss the way people listen to you there.” I didn’t quite know how or why I had felt so heard there but I knew it was much different than anything I had experienced before. Much like my experience in the country, Indianness, I think, is many things: the tension of opposites, an ineffable mystery, and always, always, entirely moving.
22. April 2008 at 5:07 pm
I absolutely love the excitement and optimism both in this post in particular and in this blog overall. It really resonates with my own experiences and feelings. Thanks for sharing it!
22. April 2008 at 7:11 pm
Oh sf, I’m so glad. Stick around!
22. April 2008 at 7:34 pm
Nice post NK ! I think its a tad biased from your love for Indian food,:P. Your not truly Americanized in the sense that you associate your self with you desi friends.
22. April 2008 at 9:45 pm
Loved the post!
22. April 2008 at 11:39 pm
Wonderful post!
23. April 2008 at 8:13 am
Yes, 6mile… this post was a bit biased
. But I guess if my bias is aimed at toward understanding, tolerance and acceptance of people the way they are, I guess I can’t feel too bad about it! Don’t worry though, I’m working on a second post about the first Indian wedding I attended with R!! Overall it was an amazing experience, but it was very different for me…I’ll explain in the post. Stay tuned!
23. April 2008 at 2:04 pm
I want to thank NeoKalypso for contributing this GREAT post about her relationship with R & his family!
I find it very interesting to read about Indian families that have immigrated to the US, and the families’ children who grew up here – the stories are often similar to my own experiences, but there are also major differences. Aditya came to the States as an adult, so he already had a developed personality & culture, if you will. Children who immigrate seem to have a harder time as they grow up in – and in between – two cultures. It sounds like R has done a great job balancing the two parts of his life.
23. April 2008 at 10:10 pm
NK – I love that quote, “Do you not think that there are things which you cannot understand, and yet which are?”
What a beautiful post! Just wanted to let you know that both M and I are utterly convinced that you’ll have no problem winning over R’s Mom. M thinks that if it works out, R’s Mom will be so thankful to have you as part of her family because you are simply amazing!
When you talk about the way that people really listen to you in India, I think that’s the “Indianness” I really see and appreciate in M. He listens to me like no one else ever has. But it’s not just me, he does that with other people too – it makes them feel appreciated.
24. April 2008 at 10:29 am
Great post, NK! G doesn’t have a lot of the qualities you described, since he was born here. I’d say he leans more toward the “coconut” side like your friend. But, he is more considerate and family oriented than any white guy I’ve met, which I attribute to the Indian-ness that did manage to stick to him.
24. April 2008 at 10:43 am
Contrary to my previous thinking, coconuts aren’t so bad
. Sometimes they can still get all the good stuff from being raised Indian and can get rid of the bad with much more ease. : /
24. April 2008 at 3:34 pm
Hmmm sometimes I’m accused of being the opposite of a coconut
(white on the outside but brown on the inside)
hehe But I like to think I stay true to my American-ess while embracing Indian culture!
24. April 2008 at 4:40 pm
Maybe we need to see a post on “American-ness” soon!! Ive often thought about what this means, and mostly I dont see myself as very American. I might be wrong about that, not sure.
It is an interesting topic!
24. April 2008 at 7:04 pm
Great idea Mirchi! I actually posed the question of “What is Americanness??” on “the other site” before (heh hem, you know when my comments weren’t blocked) and got some interesting answers. I say, go for it Mirchi!
24. April 2008 at 9:00 pm
I’m not sure I would agree with you about what Indian-ness is, or whether it can or should be described or defined, but then not even Indians in India agree about that. And I kind of think the same thing about American-ness: there are a lot of kinds of Americanness, and if we tried to describe or enumerate them we’d just be putting limits on something that “we cannot understand, and yet which is.”
But now I’m going to kind of do it anyway – America and India, as countries, are both large, influential democracies. But India seems to pride itself on a kind of united pluralism, where states have wildly different cultures and even languages. America has different regional (sub?)cultures, but it definitely seems like one of them is the standard, and everything else is defined by its difference from that. I can’t really link this to different attitudes among people, though.
I think it’s mostly that Americans don’t have a concept of Dharma. Americans don’t really have Artha either (not as an admirable goal, anyway – what was it about a rich man getting into heaven being like putting a camel through the eye of a needle?). The American Puritan heritage is all about Moksha, and the consumerist culture is all about Kama. I think a lot of how one looks at life can be determined by how you balance those four things ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusharthas ).
24. April 2008 at 9:27 pm
I think that was very well put, galaxie–especially the point about united pluralism.
Actually I tried to make it abundantly clear that my post was based on my own, narrow perceptions and that in the end, defining what Indianness is is essentially impossible, a mystery. But I think anyone can observe, take things in, have experiences, and be left with impressions of phenomenons such as Indianness and Americanness.
25. April 2008 at 12:41 am
NK, I remember that post LOL. It sure did cause some arguments hehehe.
25. April 2008 at 1:20 pm
Galaxie, I definitely agree with your first paragraph. I guess The fact that they are impossible to define makes it fun for discussion, or at least to me.
I think there are certain things that stand out as being Indian though. Its something in the speech patterns, mannerisms, gestures, and that “je ne sais quois”. If I see someone from far away, I can usually guess if they are FROM India(as opposed to born here, or a different nationality). However those things could soften over time spent in another country and doesnt make somebody ‘less indian’ of course.
I wouldnt say the culture between Indian states is vastly different. While there are some variations in customs, etc, the major and basic things are the same or similar.
Just to note, Im in no way in favor of stereotyping “All Indians” or Americans
Dont worry NK, I surely wont be making a post on it, lol, but I would join in the debate if you do
I still havent come across the post you mention. Going to have to find that! haha
25. April 2008 at 4:40 pm
Hey Mirchi, you probably WON’T find my comment over at that site since they butcher up the posts that don’t fit in with their world-view and furthermore challenge it. Here, you can saw whatever you want, no censorship unless you say totally outlandish, tool-bag things. Interesting–many of my critical opinions were removed from the site yet there was this horrible poster who viciously attacked other posters yet was egged on by the author’s Toxic Side Kick. Anyway, point is, you won’t be able to find stuff I’ve written over there–it’s all been censored. Now back to the meaty stuff here…
25. April 2008 at 4:42 pm
And, Mrchi, I think you are right in that many of the assumptions (dharma linked) are the same throughout India, but I would argue that from state to state there is vast, vast diversity. Again, what galaxie said about united pluralism was spot on.
25. April 2008 at 6:48 pm
I think some of this may depend on ones definition of “culture” and “vastly different”
I know that on the surface there are lots of things that seem different in each state/place. As I thought about this more, I realized I place a different value on things which are personal/style based and things which are social norms and expectations. The latter is what I would call culture. In that, I think the similarities outweigh the differnces. Examples of that are a sense of modesty/covering up, no PDA between sexes, affection between male friends, dating and promiscuity being frowned upon, respect to elders/parents, arranged marriage, joint family concept, removing shoes, not touching books with feet, eating with hands, “namaste” -tho in various languages, religious devotion- though it might be changing, I think regardless of religion, people in India are more devout. Theres many more widespread “Indian” things such as using the right hand, female nose piercing, Indian toilets, train, buses, rikshaws, even certain hand and head gestures.
The things which I would relate to “regional styles” for lack of a better word are things such as dance, dress, food, festivals, etc. While there are tons of differences, there are still similarities. Saree and salwar may be of different materials, worn a different way, have regional designs, but it is still recognizable as such. Same with bangles. Kathakali and bharatnatyam in south, odissi and dandia in north. Tabla, mridingam. You have phulka, dhokla, chai in Gujarat, and chapathi, idli, coffee in Tamilnadu. I know there are more food habits that differ too. I can see where there is a lot of diversity in these things and a million more and especially in language. I just think the “core” remains same(or close enough, lol)
I didnt mean to write a book, I just enjoy this type of discussion, hehe. I love to hear others perspectives… Maybe thats the whole point of these blogs right?
30. April 2008 at 11:19 am
“A lot of what attracted me to R in the first place was his calm, his humility, unbelievable work ethic, and uncanny acceptance of life the way it is.”
You just described my Nepali husband to a T.
11. May 2010 at 5:21 am
See http://saradadevi.info/index.html
11. May 2010 at 5:25 am
See http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part2/chap2.htm
11. May 2010 at 5:30 am
To know about the strengths of foundation of Indian Womenhood see:
http://www.advaitaashrama.org/cw/content.php
11. May 2010 at 5:33 am
Indians and Westerns share common ancestry.
From: http://www.hindu.com/2001/05/18/stories/13180903.htm
Once a Soviet delegation visited him. Among them was an Indologist. the Paramacharya asked him in Russian: “Does not the northernmost of your country – it’s my guess – have more Sanskrit content in the language?
In ancient Indian geography Russia is referred to as Rishi Varsha. Our rishis such as Yagnavalkya and several others used to hold their Vedic conferences here.
Some Russian women, particularly those living in the extreme north, are named Lopamudrova after Lopamudra, the wife of our sage Agastya. The Jambudweepa mentioned in our sacred texts covers the entire Europe and Asia. ”
The Russian scholar turning to his colleagues commented: “I’m not surprised that this Indian scholar saint is such a strong cultural force in his country.”