Gori Girl

I think those or really legit concerns and something I worry about myself.  Sometimes I find myself thinking "you live in America, act like it." and I feel super guility as someone who love diversity and believes in multi-culturalism.  But thats the key "multi" as in more than one, if you adopt his then you are denying your own.  Have you discussed these fears with him? Have you tried to introduce him to your favorite foods, etc?

My biggest fear and ultimately, my deal breaker is loss of my religious holidays.  I will draw the line in the sand at celebrating Christmas and Easter.

I think you need to start speaking up, and NOW. It sounds like you're just thinking all these things, but not talking them through with your SO. Are you afraid that if you speak up, he might not want to stay with you after all? That doesn't bode well for the future of your relationship. Sorry to say it like that, but it sounds like you've got a lot of concerns that you haven't discussed with him, and you're just giving in on everything preemptively.

Post edited 3:21 pm – June 18, 2010 by kck

I this is something you'll have to talk over with him, but first take some time to think about what you want.  It sounds like it hasn't occurred to him (maybe also you?) that the two of you will have to construct "culture" for yourselves.  Every little assumption has to be examined, because a lot of those assumptions are at odds.

Here are some of the things I had to work out with my fiance, who is also from Gujarat, though he moved here when he was only like 9.  A lot of it is about what the "family defaults" will be in our new family. 

1. Vegetarianism.  I became vegetarian, mostly because I had been thinking it was the eco-responsible thing to do but I didn't have the courage to try it officially.  It's been easy.  We cook about 50% Indian food and 50% random other stuff (lots of mexican-style food, actually, though I'm totally white and midwestern), and we have a different definition of vegetarianism than much of his family does (we think eggs are ok). 

2. Holidays.  We both love holidays, so we agreed to celebrate as many Hindu and American (I'm an atheist but my family celebrates Christmas etc.) holidays as we can think of.  Some holidays rub my feminist side the wrong way (karva chauth, anyone?  raksha bandhan?), so we'll do them a little differently.

3. His parents. He wants them to retire to live with him, they want the whole family to be together, I want to make sure I can have a career.  We moved to the city I want to work in and bought a house that is big enough for his parents to come join us when they're ready.  It's a two-family, so everyone can have space to themselves when they need it.  The idea of anyone wanting space upset his mom somewhat, but I think it's a good idea.

4. More about his parents.  It's a big thing for me, who is the social "head of the household."  If it's me and him, fine.  I don't want to feel like we're children living in his parents' house.  It was really hard for me to articulate my worries/feelings about this, but when we were buying a house his dad was pretty involved in our financial decisions, and it helped me clarify that I didn't want that to be the pattern in the future. 

5. Drinking alcohol.  He and I both have no problem with drinking, but his parents do.  When they live with us, this will be a compound issue –  religion, family hierarchy, all kinds of stuff.  We've decided where we stand on it, which is that in our house it's our decision, not his parents' (even if they live there too). 

6. Religion.  I don't believe in God.  I can't — I've tried and it just seems too implausible to me.  And I have almost a phobia of lying, so I can't just go along to get along.  But that doesn't mean that I think worshipful actions are bad (there's a lot of beauty and wonderfulness in the world that deserves appreciation).  Rituals have meaning, gods and their aspects are good metaphors and stories, etc.  Anyway, we decided to have a "god corner" in our house, and I might even participate in some of the home religious activities, but there are some peculiar things I'm going to add to it that aren't normally part of his or his family's home temple.  For instance, out of the Hindu gods I like Saraswati a lot.  I also like Buddha.  And there's a section of the Vedas that says "There is one truth, but the wise describe it in different ways" (ekam sat, vipra bahudha vadanti) — I'm going to have something painted or engraved with that message and put that over there too.  It's partly for me (to remind me that I don't know everything) and partly for the rest of the family (to remind them that my way is also valid).  I recently decided it was ok for me to say "jai sri krishna" to people (which is the thing everybody says when they hang up the phone or leave the house or do basically anything).  My opinions about this are really complicated and I'm still working it out, but that's the super-short summary.  For you– will you go to church?  Will your kids?  Do you want your husband to?  Will you participate in Hindu activities or visit temples?

7. Language.  What language will we speak in our house?  It's 99.9% English now, but what about when his parents are with us?  What about when we have kids?  We decided to raise bilingual kids (I think it was Gori who posted an article a long time ago about how one effective way to do this is to have each parent speak exclusively one language to the kids, which helps them keep the languages separate and not get confused about the rules).  I am good at languages so I've picked up a bit of Gujarati.  His parents are pretty ok at English, we get by better and better as time goes on.  It works.

8.  Aunts and uncles.  Some are better than others, but there are a couple who keep saying things like "our family has gained a daughter now!  no, yours has not gained a son, what are you talking about?" and "your name is too hard, can we call you Krishna?" and generally assuming that my not being Gujarati is an unfortunate deficiency, but it can (and will) be corrected.  My guy gets that this bothers me, and is sympathetic when I complain about it.  He doesn't think I need to change and reassures me that he doesn't care about what uncles think.  As often as necessary.

So I'd say, work out what these Big Questions are for you, and talk about them with him.  Not all at once!  Even one of these things can take a week or two to talk about all the way, so take your time.    The two of you have to build the culture that your home together will have.  It's not just yours and his separately — they'll combine whether you plan on it or not. 

Even if you have moved away from people you know, you have a high

probability that the new friends you make will be people who share

American culture with you — Florida is not 100% full of Gujaratis or

anything.  I think you should seek out people who remind you of home so you don't feel alone, and you have support for something to bring to the combined culture of your combined family.

America is full of Americans and it can make non-Americans feel like they have to defend their way of doing things very strongly.  You'll probably feel that way sometimes too — my in-laws have constructed a mini-India for themselves in a lot of ways, and living in it can be strange for me.  Remember that everyone is having that feeling.  Eventually more Indian things will feel normal to you and more American things will feel normal to them.  Your way of living together will grow as you take your favorite habits from each of your lives — but it will be a lot happier if you do this in an intentional way.

I have talked too much, but this is something I've thought about a lot.  It's relevant right now.  Anyway, good luck. 

Post edited 8:37 am – June 22, 2010 by kck

Just because he's inflexible (or "sure about what he wants from life," which might be effectively the same thing for this case) doesn't mean he can get out of taking your feelings seriously and responding to them. If you can, make him understand that this is important to you and to your relationship, and it's not just something he can wait for you to get over.

It sounds like you actually have similar backgrounds — if someone described their family as "close-knit, never-move-away-from-your-parents" people, it would remind me of my fiance's Gujarati family.  And that's part of it, perhaps — you both agree that it's important to be geographically close to your families, but your families are in different places.  So now a conflict arises about who gets what you both want (to be close to your families) and who has to give it up.  Is there something you can do about that?  Do either of you have parents or jobs (or both) that are movable?  Can you make a budget (a big one!) for frequent family visits?  If you can plan these things out it might help you feel more comfortable.

Also think for a bit — if you met a non-Indian guy, you'd still be pretty likely to have to move away from where your parents live, at some point in your life.  What is it, exactly, that bothers you about this situation?  It might be more complicated.

I have more things to talk about but it's my bedtime.

sometimes, the fear is frightening enough.

I know that Imran was much more relaxed about these fears than i was.

He was willing to make concessions, but he was also kind of "too relaxed," when I would bring some things up to him.

I can't emphasize enough the need to have other couples around who are also living intercultural lives. Not only does it help you know how they compromised. It also reaffirms the fact that "you can make it work." It also lets you know that different things are important to different people. Language is important to me, so I am trying to learn his language:

not just for children, but because I feel closer to him when I know his native language.

but, this might not be so important for another couple.

I think that Neokalypso in her blog,

"the Milano has landed,"

(remind me to find those cookies next time we are out)

has a beautiful post on culture and dreams etc that you would find useful.

OK, I'm a list person.

Make a list of those things about your culture that are important to you.

Make a list of things that you don't mind sacrificing on.

then, make a list of things that you will sacrifice, but it will be a large deal.

If you want your fiancee (or is it boyfriend) to take you seriously, then, you will have to come at it in a more factual (less emotional) way.

Bring to him something that he has not seen before.

your feelings do matter.

But, it sounds like he thinks that you are a drama queen and you are always emotional.

So, he does not know what needs to be responded to

and what might pass.

if he is use to watching Indian/Pakistani dramas, he might not take you seriously because he might feel that your feelings are for the moment.

Sometimes, we as women, have to sensor ourselves. If we live in our swirl of emotions, it can be a bit too much for the guys. We need to separate out what is really a big issue and what feels important now, but with some prospective, will lessen in importance.

I am not telling you to downplay your emotions.

I am just saying:

take stock. Figure out what you are really feeling and what is really important to you.

Make sure that you are comfortable with the sacrifices that you are making.

But, also make sure that you both participate in your culture, also so you don't feel like your culture has been abandoned.

And, it is important for both of you to participate in your culturally important activities: not for you to do them alone.

That will separate you, now and moreso later.

1. Imran does go to church with me and I to the mosque with him.

2. my dog will not be where he puts his prayer rug to pray. But, my dog is in the house, he is on the other rugs, he eats special food that I must buy and keep and he will go to the vet and get bathed.

3. We eat Indian and American food.

4. no alcohol and no pork. the members of My family are big pork eaters. But, neither of us drink alcohol.

5. We have both American and Indian/Pakistani friends. We watch them and talk about how we would do things differently and what we would immitate.

6. I play my American music…. …. sometimes quite loudly.

7. We have a Bible and Quran in the house. I don't have any pics of jesus, but I never did. I will wear a cross and there is no big deal.

8. we have talked about in-laws. We have talked about a two story house or something, if they ever did come to stay. But, they are in Pakistan now.

9. I would discuss money. Who makes it? Who spends it? Who decides how it is spent? what if family asks for money? Is the money you make yours or do you contribute to the household? does he tell you if he spends money? Do you tell him? Mondy can be a bit issue.

10. We have talked about raising our children interfaith. And, our children will be multilingual.

You might ask him:

what from your culture that he likes and wants to keep in his family.

Yes, don't put up with things that you would not put up from a white partner.

But, also don't keep track of the sacrifices, either.

If you do sacrifice, let it be a willing one.

Don't throw it in his face later.

But, realize that a sacrifice is "hard" and if you are doing it begrudgingly, you will regret it later and continue to badger your man about it.

He will also do the same.