Gori Girl

Another thing that really pisses me off is that while I am left absolutely alone in this huge freaking big city, he isn't. He has lived here his whole life, even went to uni here, so his social circle is massive. It isn't his fault that I moved here and lack the massive social circle, I know that but still. He gets to go out, get introduced to lots more girls by his friends and parents, anything he wants and I am stuck alone in my little basement apartment, without even a TV.  He told me not to buy one because he already had a big one and when we got married, which was supposed to be soon, we would use his and it would be silly for us to have two… grrrr  I know I need to go meet people but still, I just feel so deserted again…

He let me down sooo much.  I'm not one of those silly girls naive girls either. I have never let this happen to me before. I believed him and in him sooo much and then he drops me like a sack of flour for his parents who were nothing but mean and terrible to him. Its like he had a split personality. There is no way in the world that he could have acted the way he did to me and with me and then break up with me in this type of way… So many males, when faced with this type of situation, choose the woman and let their parents come back to him when they wanted to but choose misery instead. How unnatural.

Okay, enough venting, this is starting to slide deeply into the negative so I'll stop. :(

Hi Meghana (I love your name btw),

Nice to hear from you. :) It is very thoughtful of you to check up on me. I was going to reply but then the forums were down but anyway- they're back so I can say hi:)

In many ways I am doing a lot better. I have a new better job. I'm busy with more social activities and I am calmer overall since I don't have to deal with the horrible worry everyday that I did before.

At first I dated some people but it was too soon. I couldn't continue past one or two dates so I decided to be single for a while. I honestly thought I was much better until last weekend. I was speaking with a girl who I met through my ex. She is my friend now too. She hadn't seen him in a while and told me that she ran in to him unexpectedly. Just hearing her say that she ran in to him made me feel soo shocked and almost as if I had run in to him. The news hit me like a ton of bricks. I went to walk across the room and was dizzy and had to sit down. I couldn't figure out why I was so dizzy and then it dawned on me that my body went in to shock… lol. 

She briefly updated me on his life as I asked her what he said. Apparently, despite his telling me at the time of the breakup that he'd never marry anyone ever if he couldn't have me (and repeating it over and over even when I told him that was crazy), he is dating again. Apparently his mother set him up with a girl which is not a from a religion that is compatible with his… but she was brown so his mother thought it was okay…sigh.

I dunno what to think. I guess I just need to accept that my soul loves him, always will and let me soul love another person too. Hopefully the new person will be able to love me back without an entourage of evil. 

You must be back in India now:)  How is it?? I hope you are very happy. You really sound like you ended up knowing yourself so well. That is awesome!!  I hope you find (or already found) love too :)  

xoxoxo

Sooo, I'm back and I have really good news to share!

My Pakistani love finally got his father's approval to marry me. His mother is less on board but it is thought that since the dad is on board, it'll be easier to convince his mum. We had a really movie-like reunion yesterday evening. Ahh, I'm very happy.

I'll share more details another day but I wanted to let you all know (especially people who are having major difficulties) that there is hope at the end of the tunnel (mind you, we're not engaged or married yet!) but so far, so good.

So now we're back together again :) Yaaa. Now, I don't want to give anyone the impression that it's perfect though cause I already had a really sad crying spell today but I guess thats going to happen as my bf maneuvers through our two cultures.

Anyway, I had to share with you guys!

That's great!!! :)

I'm so glad things are looking brighter. I think for most of us, there are still days that culture clashes rear their ugly little heads…and that's after all the normal two-people-struggling-to-overcome-selfishness-to-be-in-a-long-term-relationship stuff! Don't be afraid to ask how others deal with particular issues. We can only give so much "advice," but we can certainly share how we navigate issues — or at least let you know when you're not alone!

He just needs to call their bluff.  They would rather have a son than not, even if he marries someone they didn't approve of.  They'll be upset for a while (or at least they'll act that way — many people act like this because it works), but then they'll get over it.  They might never apologize or admit it was a mistake to reject you like this, but they will change their minds eventually.  And he'll be a stronger person from having defended his decision against their manipulation.  This is how children have to grow up, sometimes.  Yeah, I know he's 30.  It takes all kinds.

Post edited 11:05 pm – July 1, 2010 by cakerbakergirl

Today is Canada Day- so happy Canada Day to all!

Unfortunately, the day didn't go so happily for my bf. He walked in on a convo his family was having about yet another potential girl for him to marry. He told them absolutely no that he'd marry me only, a fight ensued and his father swore to God (like said the shahada speech and everything) and kicked him out of the house. He quickly grabbed a couple bags of clothes and left.

Even though he knew it was going to happen, it was still a major blow. His mother started calling from Pakistan and when he finally talked to her, she told him to stop being such a problem in her life. She swore at him too(apparently called him the Urdu version of an SOB- which I pointed out was ironic cause that was dissing her ownself… but anyway). After getting moral support from another close friend of ours who happens to be Pakistani as well, he told her that he'd go home but only if they stopped the drama and accepted our future marriage. She said never and that when she got home, she was going to kick his ass or something along those lines.

None of his friends were able to take him in due to various reasons. I cannot have him stay at my apartment because I'm renting from a Pakistani family. It would ruin my rep in the Pakistani community if he slept over at my place so luckily a different friend of his, offered a room at their house for the next couple nights till we find him an apartment. I feel bad- I really want to nurture him and show him that he is safe with me but we both know that it would just reinforce the stereotypes that everyone (including the Aunties that like me) have about white girls (that we'll leave after a while and take the kids).

He feels such guilt. His parents blame him for everything. His mother said that it was his fault he got kicked out of their house.

Some of our friends are urging us to do a Nikkah now (ie Islamic marriage ceremony) but treat it as our official engagement and then have the rukshi(sp?) (ie reception/party) later and that could be in the form of a traditional Western wedding (minus the Church- lol). This way, it might help his parents see that their behaviour is pointless (as we'd be technically married asap)frgt. It would also allow us to spend lots/all our time together without having Pakistani community members thinking I'm a slutty girl. I think my parents would be freaked out though so I may have to prepare them for that happening sometime soon. It's such a foreign concept to them…

SJTP- I truly hope that his parents fall in to the "typical" category but somehow, their behavior seems more "dysfunctional". I suppose only time will tell…

KCK- I hope that he just needed to call their bluff too… he has never actually truly gone against them. I think in the past when they fought him about our relationship, he'd always cave and say he was sorry for hurting them etc (ie accepting blame for the problem). Now that he is refusing to accept blame or cave in to them, they're quite shocked and angry. It's true that he is a 30 y/o child and I've told him that. He has never moved out and had the opportunity to see the difference between living at home as an adult or living outside the family home as an adult. I know that when I return home to visit my family, I typically notice myself reverting in to a slightly more childish version of myself… I think that is common and so for someone who has never left home, it wouldn't even be apparent as there is no comparison for him. Moving out is going to be good for him.  

Thanks to you both for your words of encouragement. I need them :)

My FH's parents did the faux illness thing too.  His mom likes to stop eating until she gets her way.  It's a dirty manipulative trick.  If you and he expect that they will do this, and are prepared for it, that will help.

I was in a long-distance relationship with my FH for two years while his parents were doing their disapproval thing (but not as severely as your situation I think).  You're not going to be able to see him as much, but try to talk to him on the phone every day.  It will help.  Visit on weekends if you can, and bring food if you think that's a good idea (I bet his mom did the cooking and he's going to eat ramen a lot otherwise, unless he likes to cook). 

Honestly I agree about the nikah.  Or if there's an engagement ceremony you can do, you should do that.  (I don't know much about Pakistani muslims, but there is a hindu engagement ceremony — it involved both sets of parents though — maybe you could have a trusted older person from your religious community do that job in place of his parents if necessary.)  The whole community will have recognized your relationship as legitimate, then, because that's what weddings are for.  If you do a nikah don't do it privately, either — invite people even if they won't show up. 

Post edited 8:23 am – July 13, 2010 by kck

I know that doesn't sound good, but it is good.  His mom sounds like she's starting to come around.

I also think that there are different norms about commenting on people's relative attractiveness between American and South Asian cultures.  One of the first times I actually spent time with my MIL, she tried to get me to borrow my SIL's clothes.  When they didn't fit me, she jiggled my arm and said "Oh, you will go on a diet."  I'm 5'9", and about a size 10.  My SIL is barely 5 feet and probably size zero.  My bones wouldn't fit in her clothes.  For some reason she thinks it is OK to say these things, but I wasn't brought up to think it was OK.  I guess what I'm saying is, if your FMIL is commenting on your looks, yes the comments hurt, but at least she is commenting, you know?  It might be a caring thing for her, in a weird way.

I went with my FH to visit some aunts on Sunday and one of them mentioned that I looked too skinny.  Last time she saw me she thought I looked too fat.  I weigh exactly the same as I did then.  Then everybody joked about it, because we all know it's what aunties talk about.  It's a mystery.

I luckily got over the comments… I decided to think that the diference was that the recent pics she saw of me were of me in salwar kameez where as when she met me, i was in jeans and a top, so perhaps seeing me in her kind of clothing just helped her realise I wasn't as bad as she initially thought.

Julia- I'm not Muslim yet… but I'll be converting soon. Something that luckily I was able to investigate further when my bf and I were broken up for those 5-6 months when I thought there was no hope of getting back together.

Yesterday, we were looking at engagement rings… big deal for a girl right?  First time ever for me and we were having fun when his mother called from Pakistan. We already knew that she was going to say nothing positive but still he left me hanging in teh store and went out to the care to be verbally abused, once again. I came back to the car eventually because I felt weird to be doing that type of browsing without him and he was of course and like usual, spent.

After that I told him that he is on probation, because that type of behavior is not putting me first at all. Its his usual act, constantly putting his parents before me and it has got to stop.

I have a significant update to my story to share…

He officially proposed!! :D

We'd been talking, talking, talking about marriage etc so I wasn't surprised in the least but I do feel slightly more secure in the relationship now that I'm wearing a ring.

His family was still proving to be marjorly challenging up until he proposed. His little brother made a fake facebook account to try and spy on me and find incriminating photos. He apparently found what he was looking for when he found a picture of me at a restaurant with some other friends on the even of their weddings. We were cheersing with a glass of wine (which I honestly wasn't even drinking- I was just posing for the pic). I was wearing like a long sleeve cardigan (definitely not a party girl outfit) yet he showed this pic to my fiance's parents as proof that I'm a "Party girl". grrrrrrrr

Things with his parents continued to get worse (or stay equally bad) as well. It was helpful that he lived away from their home so that he could be on his own to think and because it allowed us to spend unpredidented amounts of time together- which is awesome!!!

Finally, his mother came back from PK. Because of this fighting, and because she left him one final vm before her return flight saying "you're dead to me", he consequently didn't make a trip back to the family household for a week or two. When he finally did, it was revealed this his siblings were using this as an attack on the mother. See, my fiance apparently was always the favored child by the mother. When he didn't come straight home to see her upon her return in the country, they took that as an opportunity to make themselves look better. They said things to the mother like that "see, he (my fiance) doesn't really love you, he only cares about her (meaning me), he has left us, you always liked him best but now you see his true colors, etc etc. I swear the mother is mentally imbalanced so all of this just exacerbated the problem. He and I went away for a weekend (another first!!!) and on the last day, she started calling him, every hour starting at 7:30am. She was bawling every single time. I actually felt bad for her because I could see that she was genuinely sad and mentally ill. So the next night he went home to see her. His siblings attacked him upon entering the house but after a couple of hours of fighting, and him revealing that he'd proposed to me, she seemed to sort of get better!!!

She said she had seen me wearing an engagement ring on facebook (not true, I didn't post any proposal pics) but regardless that kind of made the situation sink in to her. She sort of started to defend my fiance to her other children. I think it was important for her to see that he is still the same guy who loves his family despite the horrid abuse they throw his way. To make a long story short, she agreed to meet me again!!

So the meeting happened this past weekend. He and I debated the pros and cons of me wearing shalwar kameez vs western clothing. We finally decided that considering what we were going to do with her (attend an outdoor festival), I'd wear western. At the last minute, he called to say that his mother was in shalwar kameez and eventually we decided that I should too…  so I was in a quandry, I had only one shalwar kameez which is not super fancy (the others are all suitable for weddings, parties etc). This one shalwar kameez though, fits me like a bag. I haven't been able to find a tailor here to stitch it smaller on me. Knowing what I know about South Asians (or at least his family) and their preoccupation with physical appearance of potential DILs, I felt really unfortable wearing smething that added about 30lbs to my look- lol. So i literally too it and hand sewed it smaller. Of course I was panicking at this point and didn't do the best job. I digress. So I show up in teh designated meeting spot and see his mother and him. I walked up with a big smile and gave her a hug and said "salam alykum". She didn't really hug me back. I think she was shocked to see me in teh flesh about the yr of hell that she helped create about me. I was also shocked. We made small (okay actually tiny) talk and she commented that my shalwar kameez was nice but that it needed tailoring… sigh. It turned out that we were too early for the festival so she asked him to drive her home and pick her up in 2 hours. She proceeded to talk to him in the car (10 min drive in Punjabi. He tried to translate a bit for me but she never turned around in the seat to even try to include me. I knew I'd have to be bigger person so I tried to interject comments- in English- whilst speaking very slowly so she could understand. Her English is weak but passable apparently. Then we got to her neighborhood. She asked him to let her off down the street so that her husband and other children wouldn't see her with him and I!  I gave her another hug and said "Allah Haffiz". Then we drove away.

Later she called my fiance to say that she didn't want to rejoin us at the festival because her husband was upset about something else and when she had told him her plan to go back and meet up with fiance and I, that he got angry for not being included in the first place. So, she didn't come back out and I ended up with another 5-10min meeting- just like last summer.

Fiance and I were pretty disappointed. The festival was actually a Pakistani Independence day festival. So we went back. Usually I am fine with people staring at me when I'm in shalwar kameez. This time it was really pissing me off. I guess I got my fiance all hopped up too. We both just felt sooo fed up with all the BS from his family. So after the 4th phone call in 2 hours from his mother, he went home to deal with her, pack up his stuff and leave to go back to his apartment. Apparently it was good that he was frustrated because he freaked out at his mother so much that she actually calmed him down and promised that she and her husband would give me a chance still. She kept telling him to slow down and give her time. He kept reminding her that he and i have been together now for 15 months (including the time we were broken up) and that we;'ve already waited a lonnnng time. Islamically speaking, we should be married by now… He later told me that in the morning before our meeting, she almost backed out, citing that we wouldn't be able to communicate etc.

His mother is only two yrs older than my mother but his mother walks and talks as if she is 20 -25 yrs older than his mother. She seems like she should be the grandmother. It is very bizarre.

The family (including fiance) had attended a wedding that weekend. A Pakistani boy married a middle earstern girl. I asked her how she liked the wedding (small talk again) and she said very gravely that she didn't and that the other culture was "so different" from hers… lol. All I can do is laugh I guess, I mean what can I say to that…

ugh

Anyway, at the end of the day, he and I are engaged- he doesn't live at home anymore- and his mother is showing minute signs of coming around. I'm sure that after meeting me, she said plenty of nasty things (I told him to filter it out- I really don't want to hear anything about my appearance unless it is positive) but what can I do…

btw- we're targeting a spring 2011 wedding!! I have no clue what his parents' wedding exectations are and since they refuse to move at our speed, I may end up having to just plan a western wedding and let them plan their own valima or something. That way, I will get to plan my own portion of the wedding (I know that if they do come around, I'll have no say and that was boil my blood and cause regret for yrs to come).

Hi Julia,

I know what you mean about being myself. If you mean by me wearing Shalwar Kameez, it's okay. I wear it from time to time with my Pakistani friends to parties etc and I find it quite fun to wear. What I don't like is having to wear a more casual one when my only casual one is ill-fitting :S

About the siblings, yeah I know what you mean. His brother did such an about turn on us. He went from being really nice and the only family member I felt comfortable with to this crazy guy. My fiance agrees that we need to manage the family. Do you have any suggestions for us?  It's tough, thats for sure. What kind of problems do you foresee down the road?

Hi Guys,

It has been a while since I've posted but things have once again changed for me and the fiance. My fiance has decided to move back home to his parents' house. I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I understand that they feel like they didn't get a chance to say goodbye and that he abruptly moved out (technically the dad kicked him out but nobody – not even my fiance will accept that to be what happened). So now, they want more time with him before he gets married. When they talk about me, his mother keeps saying, be patient, we need time, these things take time. That frustrates me because in my mind, he and I have been together for 1 yr and 4 months which they parents have had time to think about this for 1 yr 3 months- lol. He feels that he needs to prove to them that his relationship with me isn't changing him and that he still loves them. Fine, I understand that even but there is a bigger problem at play now.

I was going along planning the wedding (making initial guest lists, thinking about budget etc) and he wasn't contributing at all. He was dodging the topic all together. Finally after I got increasingly mad at him and we started fighting about it actually, he revealed that he has changed his mind. When he proposed it was on the premise that he'd marrry me no matter what. Now he has changed his mind and he will only marry me if his parents agree. Because of that, he doesn't want to plan the wedding at all since he has no idea when (if ever) they'll agree. I told him that this is so unfair, that now there is no certainty for me and that now I have already told all my friends, family and colleagues that I'm engaged. His response is especially upsetting- "this is who I am. If you don't like then this, then you will have to make a decision. I'm not changing. You need to be patient. I'm committed to you and thats why I proposed but I will never be happy without my parents' approval so I am going to wait for it".  :( We've also been arguing because he has started to cancel on me again (we had plans to go to a masjid event and he bailed at the last minute because his parents decided to invite friends over and wanted him to be home). To me that is not a legit reason to cancel on your fiance, the one you want to become Muslim. About the cancelling, he basically told me that until his parents are on board with the marriage, he is reserving the right to cancel on me if his parents ask him to. He said he has to prove to them his love etc etc. I just feel like that is plain disrespectful. I mean, now I'm not even just a gf, I'm a fiance!! I explained to him that when he cancels, it makes me feel insecure and like hes putting his parents' emotions first. He basically said the same thing, "this is the way it is and the way it has to be, if you don't like it then you'll have to make a decision"

Then he drops another bomb on me. Since we started dating, I have been taking a minute dose of Zoloft- not becausse I am depressed but because I hurt my neck a few times over the course of my life and now, when I'm tense or stressed, if my neck tenses too much I end up with migraines. The zoloft keeps me slightly calmer so that I do not end up with the sore neck. My career is very erratic and stressful and lends itself to stress (though its getting better). His family has caused major major stress over the past period of time. Since the work stress has been reduced, I would be ready to drop the zoloft if it wasn't for his family. I never hid that I took the zoloft, I've told him since the very beginning. It's honestly not a big deal to me and I know that I'm not mentally unstable. So, fast-forward over a year of him knowing, and a month after he proposed. We're sitting in a restaurant the other night and I finally came to a conclusion on how I want to deal with him reserving the right to cancel on me until we're married. I told him that it made me feel insecure and that it hurt me. I suggested to take a more Islamic approach to the whole situation and cease "dating" all together. I said I want to stay engaged to him and all but that I want to see him more like once a month only in person though that we can still talk on the phone etc. He countered with that he needs to see me stop taking the Zoloft and eventually said that he won't marry me until I stop. I explained again about the migraines and his family's role in them and he said that I need to learn to deal with stress. I said I agree but that maybe I will always need to take the zoloft. He said if that is the case, he won't marry me!?!>?! I was floored. I mean, I never hid this from him. It's not even like I take a full dose. For anyone who knows anything about zoloft, I take only 25mg/day. Nothing!!! He tells me all this after we're engaged?! I'm really hurt. We fought alot about it. Then he brought our mutual friend over and she tried to mediate. Finally, it came out that he is worried that the person I am without the zoloft might not love him. Ok fair, I get  that. But then when I said I'd stop taking it to show him that my personality changes zero percent on it but that if my migraines get bad, and he isn't there to even help me feel better (since he has told me that he won't make firm plans), that I'd need to take it again. He said in that case, he wouldn't marry me. I feel like he is turning in to a monster a**-hole. His behavior blows my mind. He also told me that nobody should ever take antidepressants, ever no matter what the problem.  I told him that fine, I'll stop taking them but not because he is telling me to. I'm going to stop taking them because I always wanted to anyway, it was just that it became part of my routine and I forgot about it. I also told hiim that we need to go to serious pre-marital counselling. I'm really concerned that he is going to turn in a control freak now. This behavior is so shocking to me. During all this fighting, I bit my nails. I haven't done it in yrs but I did it bc I was that freaked out. When he found out, he actually got mad at me?! And said that he it wouldn't be okay for his wife to do that kind of thing. I'm starting to think, does he even love me?! I told him that and he said yes, that he loves me so much and thats why he is fighting so m uch with his parents.

It is such a bloody mess.  I'm having major doubts with him.

Any advice? :(

Amen, Julia.

I don't mean to pile on, BUT they're right.  You deserve SO much better.  You have been willing to sacrifice, and bend, and adjust, and wait at every single turn, and I'm sorry you've had to suffer through this for so long. 

I know it's really painful to think about breaking up, but getting out of a bad relationship is so empowering and liberating.  I don't mean to spam, but I think this look rather helpful (I wish i had it the last time I went through a rough breakup) http://www.thefrisky.com/calendar/  Be strong, and good luck!!

Thank you all for your concern. I was really upset when I wrote that post (as you could tell). I was so floored about my fiance… like what had happened to him. It just didn't seem right. So we talked about it, and talked about it and talked about it some more.

It turns out he thought I'd said that I would never stop taking the Zoloft. He thought it was a choice and and that I was addicted. When he thought I was telling him no way, I was on it for life, he said that I need to go off it as a threat (but not a real one, he never planned to leave me).

He also started to get scared that the person he loved was the person on zoloft but that the real me, might be different (because he thought the zoloft changed my personality). He was worried that in turn, if/when I ever stopped taking it, I might fall out of love with him because again, he thought my personality might change.

After I finally got all of this out of him I calmed down. So did he. He accompanied me to a dr appt and we discussed the zoloft with my GP. She was rather tough on him- lol. I liked it. SHe was like "what the heck" it was quite funny but I felt bad for him because he was SO worried. I had to hold his hand the whole time.

Basically, this all boiled down to a cultural difference (South Asians being igorant about and against anti-depressants) and also his poor method of communication. He learned that making threats or "tough love" like proclamations is going to get him nowhere with me (except hysterical). 

Putting myself in his shoes and considering the above, I can understand where he is going from (though flawed). He thought that people choose to be happy (normally we do) and didn't know that in some people, there is a chemical inbalance which requires balancing through antidepressants.

He understands that I wasn't sad/depressed, that my minimal dose was to cause relaxation and avoid neck tension which led to the headaches. I have wanted to stop taking them for a while, I just kinda forgot that I was taking them.  So I am easing off them. I'm going to the gym (as I should have been before) and making sure to schedule regular massage therapy appts. I should have been doing these things before I just got so overwhelmed with work and my previous ex that I couldn't manage it all (and went on the minimal dose).

My fiance now understands that he cannot cancel on me and hasn't. He tells his mother well in advance when he is going to visit me. He tells her she is welcome to join us but if she chooses not to, that he will be with me no matter what. So far, that has worked perfectly. I had a headache after a long day at work the other day and he came over and rubbed my neck and made me feel better.

He's back to his normal self. I'm SO relieved. I think we both learned valuable communication lessons with this and I guess it is good that it came out now, prior to the marriage because he was hiding his fear of the zoloft so it would have come out some time anyway. 

I've forgiven him now, so pls, all of you caring ladies, forgive him too :) 

Thank you SO much for your concern.

I also stand by what I initially said.  My advice is to leave him and start seeing your therapist more often to work through everything this relationship has put you through.  Further these are all sorts of really big red flags for how he will be, especially with regards to trying to control your medications.  This is not healthy behavior and you are not in a healthy relationship.  I pray that you will find the strength to do what is best for you and you will land on your feet with a better sense of yourself and what you deserve in a partner.

Thanks guys. I have never heard of Aimee Mann so I am going to look up the album right away. I definitely need some new tunes.. hehe especially therapeutic ones!

I'm sad, slightly relieved, a bit PO'd and scared that I'll be single for another long time.. :( I guess thats normal after a breakup :(