My husband and I don’t speak a common language. Never have, never will. Sure, I’m a native English-speaker, born & raised in America, and Aditya grew up speaking English both in the home and at school – and he even majored in English Literature at the Midwestern university we both attended. Nonetheless, we will always be shouting to each other across a ravine – a gap created by our different cultures.
Those of your who are in an intercultural relationship – or who interact regularly with people from a different culture, as I discussed last post – know that this gap goes far beyond the ones created by so-called gender wars, “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus” talk, the accents or incomplete vocabularies of non-fluent speakers , or even the basic idea from philosophy of language that no person can know exactly what you’re thinking in your head. The culture we grew up with inevitably affects the framework of the world we perceive – and thus the world we communicate to and with. Lest I end up sounding too pessimistic, however, let me hasten to add that that the difference in world views created by dissimilar cultures isn’t insurmountable. Sure, you’re never going to completely conquer the gap between two cultures – but every little bit helps!
Today’s post is on one of those little bits that help. Or maybe it’s a big bit – I’ll let you decide.Before we get going too far, I admit that my dear husband would probably laugh his socks off if he thought I was claiming expertise in the arena of communication. So, to spare his socks, let’s be clear: I’m no professional communicator. What I am, however, is a reliably trained research monkey whose idea of fun is skimming through academic journals and books on all manner of things. And today I’m writing about something I found in one of those books – a framework put forth by Dr. Michael Bryam that has helped me tremendously in thinking about – and doing – intercultural communication. This framework organizes the six interrelated skills, attitudes, and knowledge sets – each a savoir – which together make up intercultural communicative competence. The first three are preconditions for any true cross-cultural communication – without them you’re lost. The last three are necessary for the successful development of intercultural competence. Let’s dig in!
Savoirs: knowledge, plain and simple
Savoir - without the plural ‘s’ – means “to be aware” or “to know” in French. Savoirs - with the ‘s’ – is the knowledge dimension of our framework of intercultural communication. This is the background information about a culture or nation you need to know in order to have a snowball’s chance of understanding subtle references or remarks. In the US, for example, you often hear the phrase “he hit that one out of the park” when someone answers a question particularly eloquently, or otherwise performs well. If your foreign friend didn’t know the first thing about baseball and home runs, that idiom would make little to no sense to him – and communication stops when you use it. And thus you fail savoirs in not one, but two ways – not knowing what his culture consists of, and failing to realize the unique facets of your own. There’s two cultures being represented in the conversation, and you need to know about both.
However, savoirs is more than just that. Beyond knowing the nitty gritty about a culture – the gestures, symbols, values, “high” culture,”low” culture and so forth of the person you’re trying to communicate interculturally with, savoirs also requires you to understand meta-culture. What are the things that make up any culture? Where are the areas you’re most likely to misstep with the particular person you’re talking to? What are the things you don’t know about this person’s culture? Or, as Bryam defines it, savoirs is “knowledge about social groups and their cultures in one’s own country, and similar knowledge of the interlocutor’s country on one hand, and similar knowledge of the processes and interaction at the individual and societal levels, on the other hand.”
Savoir s’engager: critical engagement
Critical engagement – or savoir s’engager - is the second of the requirements for any sort of true intercultural communication. It’s defined as “a critical engagement with the foreign culture under consideration and one’s own” by Bryam, but I like to think of it as being willing to jump off the high dive – and hope you stick the landing. Basically, it’s holding the general disposition that you’re going into a discussion with a person from another culture with eyes wide open and ready to critically think about whatever gets tossed up to you. Generally, I think this attitude is one that everyone should make an effort to have everyday – but it’s especially important in a cross-cultural setting where closing your eyes to the true differences – and similarities – in cultures will mean inevitable confusion and failure to understand one another.
Savoir être: critical openness
Bryam defines savoir être as “the capacity and willingness to abandon ethnocentric attitudes and perceptions and the ability to establish and maintain a relationship between one’s own and the foreign culture”. Quite the mouthful, eh? I initially had some difficulty understanding – and accepting – this savoir, as I very much believe in a concrete right & wrong, independent of culture. I thought that Bryam’s definition was calling for me to give up this view. But then I realized that savoir être is really just the other side of the coin from savoir s’engager – where one calls for you to be critically engaged in the idea of culture while communicating interculturally, the other calls for you to be open to the ideas of the other culture. Savoir s’engager says to look about yourself sharply, but savoir être requires you to not look about so sharply that all you see is things to criticize. That doesn’t mean that there might not be some things worthy of criticism in a foreign culture (there’s no such thing as a perfect culture, just like there’s no such thing as a perfect human) – but you should also open to the good things that every culture holds. If all you can express is criticism, the problem lies with you and your lack of savoir être, not the culture. And you can expect that your unwillingness to budge away from your ethnocentrism will stop members of that culture from even attempting to communicate with you.
Savoir apprendre: skill of discovery
Apprendre is better translated as “learn” or “learning”, I believe, but discovery better fits the flavor of the idea that Bryam is trying to get across. He defines savoir apprendre as “the capacity to learn cultures and assign meaning to cultural phenomena in an independent way.” In other words, kicking yourself in the butt to explore a culture actively, rather than wanting things spoon-fed to you. Of course, if you somehow manage to get some basic knowledge, and you have the critical attitudes I discussed above, you don’t have to independently explore a new culture to hold a reasonable discourse. But you aren’t going to improve your communications skills by sitting like a stick in the mud either. If your goal is to be a truly competent intercultural communicator, you have to be able – and willing – to explore foreign terrain on your own, to engage others through interaction. Your significant other, friend, or teacher won’t always be there to translate new-to-you cultural phenomena.
Savoir comprendre: skill of understanding
This is likely the simplest of the savoirs in definition – “the capacity to interpret and relate cultures” – but one of the hardest to master. Luckily, it’s also what you’re taught to do in your formal education – take information, and then interpret it, analyze it, and place it within a larger context. Basically, it’s a research paper, but applied to the culture you’re interacting with, not your English lit text. Of course, in order to have material to ponder, you’ll first need to discover it through savoir apprendre. But the payoff of learning to learn in a new setting is always worth it – as you understand a culture and then incorporate your understanding of a culture into your communications, they discussion you have will grow much, much richer.
Savoir faire: knowing what to do
Finally, we’re left with the one that wraps it all up: savior faire, which is “the overall ability to act in an interculturally competent way in intercultural contact situations.” Other possible translations are “don’t put your foot in your mouth”, “don’t freeze” and above else, “be cool.” If you’ve developed the five other savoirs in your quest to be a good intercultural communicator, savoir faire is applying them to an actual, real-time interaction with others from another culture, and succeding beautifully.
So there we all are – the six components. Going through these, step-by-step, has helped me realize what areas I need to work on in order to improve my interactions with both my Indian husband, Aditya, and all my crazy non-American coworkers (I’m totally a freezer! Also not big on going out into the wilds to discover new stuff!). I hope it’s helped you a bit too. And I’d love to hear what others think of this framework – it’s not the only one the intercultural academics have come up with, but it’s certainly the most detailed one. So, valid? Not valid? Missing a key part of the way you think of intercultural communication? Too theoretical?
4. February 2009 at 9:47 am
So much food for thought!
First, on communication across a language difference in a relationship, I've always thought of this as a gift. Even if two people are born in the same culture, words still carry different meanings for different people. For me, when I know there's a language barrier, I listen extra closely to get the essence of the meaning, rather than focusing on specific words. When my husband and I first met and he was in the earlier stages of learning English, he would sometimes get frustrated that I didn't correct every mistake as it happened–but I wanted to wait to hear the whole concept–that way I might better know what words would best evoke what nuances.
Now, on the opposite extreme, as relates probably to 'savoir etre', we also went through a phrase where he would use a word I had never heard of, and I would insist it wasn't a word…until like the 20th time we opened the dictionary to resolve the dispute and I was wrong. (not sure if this was actually ethnocentrism, or literature major snobbishness!). But I'm grateful to have learned so much English from my Portuguese speaking husband!
I enjoy reading and learning theories related to intercultural communciations and diveristy, and absorb them somewhat in the same way that I look at the idea of being an intercultural 'being.' Openness to learning something new, and ultimately taking bits and pieces of different theories for a global view of the subject–just as my husband and I have crafted our own blend of cultural tradition, language and communication from the myriad of possibilities we bring from our separate and shared experiences.
Thanks for the post.
4. February 2009 at 10:40 am
I remember years ago when I would hear young Indian men and women, in their late teens and early twenties, talk about “proposals”. They would tell me, “I proposed one girl in school” or “he proposed to me today”, etc. And I thought, hmmm, “kind of young for them to be proposing…..”
Turns out they were “proposing friendship”, which is a concept I had never heard before in my life.
Another one; “taking classes” and “taking appointments” (Aiswarya Rai even said that on OPRAH! and there was a silent/awkward moment from the audience.)
I always thought they were telling me that they were taking classes and MAKING appointments.
Actually what they meant was that they were GIVING classes, and yes, making appointments.
The teachers and professors say, “I'm taking a class today”.
How about 6s and 9s? Turns out that's an old British saying?!?! (wonder what it means in old UK)
How about the “pepsi” they sell on the trains? (Not a soft drink or a drink at all)
Anyway, so many things.
I've got to run, I've taken an appointment with my parents today for lunch (thanks Ash for the idea!)
4. February 2009 at 10:59 am
PS:
By the way GG, I saw your little flash comment about me at SM. It's not that I've “popped” over here. I've been posting at SM regularly, almost weekly for the last one year………
I've even sent them a few “tips”, which they later used as blogs and thanked me for. Of course they may not have known it was me tipping off…..LOL.
Catch me if you can…..
But I've noticed nobody ever replied to the few comments you've left on that site. Perhaps they think you are me? (That's happened alot. They've confused other commenters to be me and me to be other commenters. They also thought some girl who had a blog about living and dating some guy in India was me. You know, that brown haired girl with a pic of her on a motorbike with her desi boyfriend, forget her name, but I think she's linked to your site from her site or something. The goris seem to be connected.)
Or maybe they just aren't into white girls that they feel “exotify” the “other” in the form of desi partners. They had issues with that in the past. I think they all like to keep it brown.
I doubt anyone from their site will venture over here, except perhaps other banned peeps like HMF, but he hates women and white folk in general so probably not.
Anyway, nice attempt at trying to direct traffic to your blog but I think you'd probably do better on white sites for that. The SM browns just don't seem to give a damn what us goris think. Despite, or perhaps in light of, having brown partners.
Word.
4. February 2009 at 11:15 am
While the differences between British English, American English, and Indian
English are sometimes amusing – or even confusing – I'm not really sure if
they're pertinent to this post. Communication requires far more than just
fluency & matching vocabularies..
4. February 2009 at 11:35 am
This is being deleted for being completely off-topic. This is your second warning.
4. February 2009 at 11:43 am
''is being deleted for being completely off-topic. This is your second warning.''
But yet your comment regarding me on an Sepia blog about American Idol contestant Sanjay Malakar was ON topic?
(hand on head in exasperation at the irony of it all)
Touche!
LOL.
4. February 2009 at 11:44 am
Hi GoriGirl. I have been following your blog for a couple of months now and I really enjoy the fluency with which it is written and its straight from the heart attitude. (I wish I could pen my thoughts so easily and well !)
As an Indian grad student in the US, I have observed many an Indian guy- American girl and American guy- Indian girl couple and I have a few notions that you might want to comment on:
1. American guy – Indian girl works better than Indian guy- american girl?
Some say that this is true because of the Indian “woman holds the home together ” concept which allows the marriage to last much longer. Also individualism is a defining characteristic in the US, much more so than in India. Thus, American woman-Indian guy works a little bit less as well as vice versa. What do you think? Is the stereotype justified or is it dependant from person to person.
2. India is a nation that prides itself on its long lineage and distinctive culture. Children are usually brought up by the mother, and the influence of the mother goes a longer way than the influence of the father. Thus, for an Indian guy to be marrying someone from outside the community let alone outside the country, unless the partner really adjusts, learns and tries to pass on that “Indian-ness” to their children, it would be hard to continue to have that element in the couple's children. This refers to the positive aspects of Indian culture, including strong family values, strong societal values (keeping in touch with friends and relatives etc) .
I am curious to know how you guys handle these aspects of your life in your own intercultural marriage.
Best wishes, regards and luck,
RW
BTW: Gorigirl—does your name start with an M and Aditya's with a T??…I believe that you have a picture on your blog that is has your names in its url. You might want to rename it to preserve your privacy.
4. February 2009 at 11:44 am
You said it right here;
“”"This really has nothing to do with the post at hand – other than, perhaps, “voices in one's head”, but I thought the Sepia Mutiny folk would be amused to hear that Pardesi Gori has popped up on a bunch of blogs discussing interracial/intercultural relationships, including my own. The ranting is incredibly amusing, if you all enjoy that sort of thing.
”"”
4. February 2009 at 11:44 am
You said it right here;
“”"This really has nothing to do with the post at hand – other than, perhaps, “voices in one's head”, but I thought the Sepia Mutiny folk would be amused to hear that Pardesi Gori has popped up on a bunch of blogs discussing interracial/intercultural relationships, including my own. The ranting is incredibly amusing, if you all enjoy that sort of thing.
”"”
4. February 2009 at 11:47 am
Point is….. talk about being off topic!
No need to ban me, I leave for Tunisia day after tomorrow and am NOT taking my lap top.
Salam and Goodbye.
4. February 2009 at 11:48 am
Three strikes and you're out.
4. February 2009 at 12:45 pm
Hi R W,
Those are both good questions, and probably each deserve a blog post. But to quickly address them
1. I actually don't know any serious Indian girl – American guy couples, so I don't think I have any personal knowledge about the differences. I'm sure there are some, though, if only because many Indian families have different expectations about their daughters vs. their sons (actually, that's probably true for most families, period). I have been contacted by several Indian women in intercultural relationships, and there will be a (short) blog post about that in the next day or two.
2. I'll just comment on this point vis-a-vis me, not generally, as I haven't done much thinking/research on this topic. I think that in Aditya's family, at least, his father has had just as large an impact on him as his mother – he's very, very similar to his father in many ways. Aditya and I don't yet have children, but when we do, he'll be expected to play just as large a role in their lives as I do (and I'm sure he'll want to). Actually, given his career path, he might be more of the stay-at-home parent than me! So I guess he'll get plenty of time to pass on whatever culture he'd like to. That being said, if we live in the US while raising children they'll soak up the ambient American culture without a problem, so I do think that we'll both have to make extra efforts for them to learn about their Indian heritage. If we live in India, it'd be the reverse , of course. I've watched my American uncle and Japanese aunt do this with their son, and I think they've done a fantastic job balancing both cultures.
Oh, and just a note, I think there are plenty families around the world who have “strong family values, strong societal values (keeping in touch with friends and relatives etc) .” To be frank, I don't think my family really does, but there are plenty in America overall.
Thanks for the worry, but I'm aware of the picture you reference, and it's actually a picture of friends of Aditya & I – and I don't care about their privacy!
Just kidding – I've already checked with them, and they don't care. But the anonymity on this blog is really only maintained so that my or Aditya's name doesn't come up if a potential employer searches for us online – so I'm not too anal about the issue.
4. February 2009 at 12:54 pm
Oh c'mon !
I don't necessarily agree with every thing that Pardesi has to say, but often she raises some very valid (albeit blunt) points. The (heated) exchange on some other posts/blogs that included her made for some very entertaining reading.
I hope you'll reconsider your decision to ban her. :-]
4. February 2009 at 1:12 pm
K, I've already asked politely for this not to be a topic of discussion on this thread. I 'd appreciate it if you removed this comment. And you're free to do whatever you like with your blog, but I do not accept insults to be tossed around on mine. If she had been polite in her comments, I would not have banned her. If I had not heard from a number of people – who I consider quite reasonable people overall – that they found her remarks insulting, I would have not have banned her. If she had listened to my multiple requests regardin her conduct, I would not have banned her. If she had not violated my comments policy three times (more, actually, but I overlooked most of them out), I would not have banned her. If she didn't have a history of stirring up trouble on a number of blogs I frequent, I would not have banned her.
And if she applies to me asking me to reconsider it, I probably will. But I'm not interested in seeing my blog filled with stereotypes and idiocy, and that was all I and several other people were hearing from her.
4. February 2009 at 1:44 pm
Actually, nevermind on removing the comment. Perhaps my response to yours will make it clear to others why I have banned Pardesi Gori.
4. February 2009 at 8:18 pm
You mean Aditya is a pseudonym? It never occurred to me….
4. February 2009 at 8:27 pm
Oh – sorry. Perhaps a substantive comment as well?
Reading through this framework, it mirrors my relationship trajectory a lot. I think I had the critical engagement down already and that's part of the reason I was searching and/or open to an intercutlural relationship. I also frontloaded a lot of knowledge-gathering about desi culture, especially when there seemed to be less information sources from which to gleam that info. (Where was The Namesake & Slumdog Millionaire 7 years ago!?!) The last two are probably where I'll have to continue working the rest of my life. The only thing I think is the converse to all of these. With knowledge comes knowing the limits of your knowledge. With understanding must come the ability to realize when you don't understand. For me, this is often easier with my husband than with others. Maybe it's just another aspect of familiarity with the culture, but I think of it more are familiarity with the conversant. We have a symmetry, a history, a tempo. I understand his Urdu better than anyone elses. (I know this isn't about communicating in a foreign language, it's just an example of my point.) His cadence is the groundtruth for me. When I'm speaking about Pakistani life or culture with him, I immediately know when I've missed a beat. When speaking with others, sometimes I don't realize it as quickly or easily. Sometimes I feel like I'm off the beat entirely when I'm not.
5. February 2009 at 3:22 am
As well as being a good intercultural communicator (which i have to say i think Gori Girl and few others on this blog have down to a fine art!), perhaps we can also learn from observing bad intercultural communication.
The following example some of you (or probably all) have seen on television but i think it shows very clearly the effects on other people around you (and further afield) if you steroetype people and show complete disrespect for them.
On the question of why Indian Girl – American guy relationships work better than vice versa. Well, here in the UK after this show was aired and people were asked was this racism more English women jumped to the defence of JG and her 2 co-horts than did English men on TV/Radio and newspaper interviews.
And these are 3 young women had successful careers in TV and that have supposedly grown up in a multi-cultural society!!!!!!
I have never in my life seen an Indian woman behave in this manner towards English people either in the UK or in India. Has anyone out there? I have observed and been on the receiving end of such verbal diaorhea on a few occasions from English women too just to be clear. People have tend to defend these 3 women under free speech and individualism and god knows what else but to me it shows a complete lack of respect for others and above all bad intercultural communication.
Personally, I think it reflects very badly on all English women in general and this sort of behaviour is one reason why Indian boys are less reluctant to take English girls home to meet the parents. Am i stereotyping? Maybe I am….i'm sure someone will correct me.
Individualism is fine and great but it has its limits and if the communication is wrong from the beginning then it will only get worse when 2 people meet. Another reaosn why you see fewer Indian guys with English girls!
People have argued that this whole CBB thing was blown out of all proportion (and maybe it was) but there are definite lessons to be learned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSvp5JJO4s
regards
5. February 2009 at 12:54 pm
One of the strengths of the framework I think is that it is nicely balanced between the internal (thoughts, emotions, attitudes) and external actions.
I do agree that being willing to jump off the cliff is important to making an intercultural relationship work. A lot of things are not said and have to be lived and experienced. At times I keep wishing there was a nice book entitled “Satya's Culture and His Family's Culture”, but there just isn't. For us sometimes we don't know there is a divide until we are in the middle of one. I agree with TheGoriWife that it is important to know where your knowledge ends and where you need to ask for help.
I'd say everything has to start with openness and curiousity (savoir s'engager and savoir etre). The rest can be built up over time, but these I think are absolutely crucial to get communication going and relationships started.
5. February 2009 at 1:04 pm
Oh, I don't think cross-cultural communication is necessarily a bad thing – it' s just another facet of communication that we need to remember. Like you said, it' can actually be helpful to have it out there in the open as an issue!
It's interesting to hear your experience of marrying a person who was not fluent when you met him. Aditya has always been around English, even if it's not his native. We argue all the time about the meaning & existence of words too (actually we squabble all the time, period). He uses British words all the time that I don't think exist, and he doesn't believe me when I say that such-and-such is a word. I think “irregardless” was the latest one in question; it's rather worthless as a word (meaning is the same as “regardless”), but it's used often here in the states. Not so much in British English or Indian English apparently.
5. February 2009 at 1:41 pm
It's explained in the About page, I think. It's not a big deal really, but I do catch hell when I call him Aditya in real life. :-p
5. February 2009 at 2:51 pm
You're right that knowing our limits of understanding are always important. I try really hard (and I think you do on your blog too) to avoid the implying that I'm either (a) all knowing about South Asian culture or (b) trying to “be” or “become” Indian or otherwise appropriate Indian culture as my own. It's a fine line to walk at times. Anyways, the idea of limits to our understanding is why I titled the post “Becoming an Intercultural Communicator” rather than “Being …”. I'm not sure if you can ever be the perfect communicator, but I think you can always be in the process of becoming a better one.
5. February 2009 at 3:14 pm
Hmm… I'm not sure what you mean by
Personally, I don't see how the idea of individualism can be seen in contrast with the idea of good intercultural communication. Maybe you could expand on that more?
I don't think it's right to judge all English women on the actions of just three people. That would be, to my mind, stereotyping. As we say in the social sciences, unless you have a representative sample, you can't draw any conclusions. (And even afterwards, it's difficult to draw good conclusions.) Three people are not a representative sample by any definition! Ram, if you haven't read my post on stereotyping, you might consider doing so – writing it out was very helpful to me at least in figuring out what is and isn't a stereotype.
I do understand that race relations are quite different in the U.K. compared to what we see here in the U.S., though. I'm not sure if they're better or worse, but I bet they're more complex for South Asians, given the colonial history and higher levels of immigration.
5. February 2009 at 3:19 pm
Actually, these are things I've been tossing around for awhile, trying to figure out how to write about them. Not entirely related to you original post, though. But the avoiding the implication that you're all-knowing about desi culture, or trying to be/become Indian, etc. Those are definitly important to remember, and important for intercultural communication, too. But often I feel as if these things are used to cut off an outside experience. Maybe they're just not bright line rules. Like, I've read about “going native” and I think I probably went through some of that in the beginning, and I don't necessarily think that was a bad thing for the development of my identity and incorporating my new knowledge base into that identity. Or maybe it was a different version of something like it. Some way of finding the boundaries and outlines of this new identity. And appropriating culture….ugh. I'm not sure how I feel about that either, because some people have told me that because I'm not Pakistani (or speaking to am American-born friend of mine, that she wasn't Pakistan-born), so how do we purport to “speak for Pakistan.” Like I can't tell people the difference between South & North Indian food because I'm an impostor, or appropriating desi-ness, or pejoratively “going native.” But my life has been mired in this stuff for YEARS now, doesn't some of it become my own experience? It's a muddled mess in my mind. I mean, I agree with the original points, too! That one should not imply “that I'm either (a) all knowing about South Asian culture or (b) trying to “be” or “become” Indian or otherwise appropriate Indian culture as my own.”
Sorry I couldn't be more coherent.
5. February 2009 at 4:35 pm
MMK, I hadn't even thought of the internal vs. external component. Food for thought, both in this framework and other ideas about intercultural communication… *ponders*
5. February 2009 at 8:30 pm
It is easier for an indian family to accept an American bride with the full knowledge that they are different.
In my case it was not easy for my husband's family ( and is still not ) possible for them to accept me as their sons' wife. 10 years ago when we married ( one bengali hindu, the other christian , but indian, the wife older than the husband, speaks different languages with our parents ) it was a taboo and it still is.
The basis of our communication ( my husband's and mine ) is not hindu, or bengali, or christian or any language – but as human beings who share common goals and values in life. This unites us much more than the intercultural factors which is a dividing factor between the respective families and the in-law.
do i make sense?
9. February 2009 at 4:39 pm
Wow. That framework is a little too academic for my blog-reading state of mind, but…
When I started dating Good Man, a White American friend of mine who conducted his relationship entirely in Korean (a rarity, to be sure) told me, “Give him the benefit of the doubt.”
I quickly learned what he meant. Good Man has said things so RUDE in English! He doesn't do it as much now, but he used to all the time. And based on his reaction to my reaction, he had no idea.
I know I've done the same thing in Korean. Joked too early in a relationship, or used “love” too often. (I told my taekwondo Master that I loved him one day because he'd finally quit making us do pushups. Based on the reaction of my classmates and Master, it didn't go over the same way in Korean as it would have in English. I've also been really rude to people unintentionally. Luckily not so much now, but early on? Ooops…)
I applied that rule to life in Korea outside of my relationship with Good Man, and I hope Koreans applied it to me, too. In fact, I know they did.
Assuming the best, being open-minded, and having a sense of humor (mostly self-directed!) go a long way in communicating in another language. Probably add “be more conservative than you are at home” to that, too.
I do find the more Korean I learn, the more we understand each other, in any language.
11. February 2009 at 12:34 am
Okay, I am laughing as I write this, but my husband has gotten to the point of joining me as an (American) English snob…we will give each other looks if someone says “irregardless” in conversation. I just had to look it up in the dictionary to see if I was now offending any/all Americans who read your blog, but the dictionary says: irregardless, “a double negative, is never acceptable except when the intent is clearly humorous.”
We've had a lot of fun with pronunciation, too–Brazlian Portuguese “R's” sound like “H's” so we like to joke “give me a Rug” for a hug, or the correct response to “Have you seen my Keys?” is to give the person a Kiss (kees) and say “here they are!”
We (I'm clearly admitting too much here) were helping a friend prepare for a dinner party years ago, and as we cut potatoes the group spontaneously sang “you say pot-AY-toe, I say Po-TAH-toe,” and everyone stopped singing, accept for me an Eugenio, who continued to sing “You say Garlic, I say Gar-LICK-ee” Everyone gave us the same look you are probably making right now–but the point is, what a joy to build yoru own language!
12. February 2009 at 11:41 am
The OED defines irregardless as:
We always use the OED to solve our linguistic arguments – it was the agreed upon text early in our relationship, since it's generally seen as the authoritative dictionary to most English professors we've queried. Webster sometimes comes out if the dispute is about “correct English” (Aditya's term) vs. American English. Yes, we are an argumentative pair.
12. February 2009 at 11:44 am
Yes, I think I understand your meaning. As Deanna said up at the top, in relationships where it's extremely obvious that the two people are coming from two different cultures, it can be easier to anticipate that there will be cultural differences than in a relationship like yours, where you're from the same country and therefore considered (by some) to be of the same culture.
12. February 2009 at 11:49 am
Do Koreans use please & thank you much? That's been an issue of our Indian/American relationship – Aditya often comes off at first glance as a bit rude or presumptions in his requests to me, as he doesn't use please & thank you as often as I expect to hear it. When we talked about it he couldn't even figure out what the equivalents would be in Bengali – if there are words meaning please or thank you, it's never been his family's “culture” to use them.
12. February 2009 at 2:09 pm
In Korean or in English? In Korean the standard way to ask someone to do something (someone of equal or slightly higher status) is to tack a please verb ending on everything. But it gets complicated, because if someone is much higher, you have to make convoluted sentences like “it would be really great if you would do this.”
They use “thank you” a lot, though.
I feel Aditya's pain. I am WAY too blunt and direct in Korean, even when I TRY to be polite. I haven't yet wrapped my head around the fact that instead of saying, “I can't come because I have work,” I'm supposed to say something like, “It seems like maybe I will not be able to come because it seems like maybe I will have to work.”
1. March 2009 at 11:48 pm
ooh, i'm new to your blog and love it. (Indian-American girl married to a white American guy). Re: please and thank you, my parents speak Tamil at home and there doesn't seem to be an equivalent, but it's definitely reflected in tone of voice. You can tell when someone is commanding you to do something vs. asking, just based on the tone of their statement.
3. March 2009 at 12:14 pm
Hey ARC – welcome to the blog! You're right that there's certainly a difference in tone between a command & a request, but I'm always left wanting that please. Probably comes from a childhood of hearing “You want a snack…what</>?” and “What's the magic word?”. It's a very American/British thing, I think.
By they way, I like your blog! I was a percussionist in high school, and I always wanted to learn set. Cool etsy site too – gotta love geek girl stuff.
20. July 2009 at 3:47 pm
“it's never been his family's “culture” to use them.”
because ultimately with family, theres no need to bs around with them. half the 'please' and 'thank you's we say , heck 90% of them are all empty little pleasantries that have no real meaning to them.
13. January 2010 at 6:11 pm
Hi, I talk about (in my blog that I have only recently started to get on the internet) “Topple you over,” As IA is a cricket enthusiast and listened to the BBC, his English is almost flawless. But, while we were sparring at a game of cards, he mentioned that he would “Topple me over.” I was wrong, that is actually a common phrase!
He does not like me to thank him much because he sees it as “too polite,” and some ow too formal and cheapens the act of whatever he just did.
“you can do as you wish,” also has quite arrogant implications, although I did not see it that way.
Hmm, I just finished “a Suitable Boy,” by Vikram Seth and
Latta told Harish that he was “mean,” and Harish took offense, but she did not mean it the way he took it.
Sometimes offense is just offense!
21. January 2010 at 4:58 pm
Jamily, what’s your blog’s location? I’d be interested in reading it.